Information & Ethics Committee on Aug. 11th, 2008

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you to all the witnesses who came and for your patience and for your willingness to cooperate with the committee. We appreciate it very, very much.

I only have a few minutes, and I would like to touch briefly on three of you, if I can.

I'd like to start with Mr. Goudie. Mr. Goudie is a former CBC journalist, a 10-year veteran of the provincial legislature in Newfoundland, and a former cabinet minister.

We have very limited time, Mr. Goudie, but I would simply ask how it made you feel when you were invited to take part in this election financing plan or scheme by the central party. Did your ethical radar go off at all? Did it seem legitimate to you? How did you feel about it then, and how do you feel about it now? I notice your official agent, Debbie Singleton, who is not a witness here today, made some very strong comments. Do you share her views?

Please, you have the floor.

[Joe Goudie, As an Individual]

Debbie Singleton was the campaign manager; Gordon Barnes was the official agent for their campaign.

During the campaign itself I was not aware that this had actually taken place. By the time I became the official candidate for the Conservative Party of Canada in that election in 2006, we had 20 days left to campaign. Labrador is 112,000 square miles, with 30 or 32 communities. Travel in the middle of winter was important, and I had to get at it right away.

When Mrs. Singleton was contacted by a representative of the Conservative Party of Canada--and this was her first campaign as campaign manager--she was not particularly alarmed. She had faith in the Conservative Party of Canada, that the right thing was being done, and she then directed the representative to contact the official agent.

I became aware of this matter in early April of this year. Mr. Barnes did raise the matter with me following the campaign in 2006 when we were dealing with the Elections Canada return by candidates. The discussion took place dealing with a number of financial items, and I didn't single this particular one out as being of concern or anything else. When the information appeared on CBC television identifying four candidates in our province from the 2006 campaign as being involved in some kind of a financial scam, my radar went up. I became alarmed. I sought legal advice, and as a result I filed an affidavit.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much, sir.

I wish I had more time to deal with each of you, but I would now like to speak to Ms. Louise O'Sullivan, former city councillor for the city of Montreal.

You made some very strong statements that had the Conservative Party invited you to take part in this you would have said no, because it doesn't meet your standards, tests, for being morally or ethically right. Would you care to elaborate?

[Louise O'Sullivan, As an Individual]

You know I was with the other party for a long period of time.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You left the Liberal Party over the sponsorship scandal, did you not?

[Louise O'Sullivan]

I did. My picture was often taken behind Mr. Gagliano, and people who are not politically inclined might have felt that by association I was part of the scandal.

I was on the PLC board. I held a couple of positions with Mrs. Robillard; I was on the executive in Westmount. I'm a business person. I own my own personnel agency, I have a name downtown, and I wanted to protect my name. So just by association, I left the Liberal Party. At that time I was approached by the Conservative Party. My name was being bandied about. I was still elected. I held an executive city council position, and I left on moral grounds, for different reasons.

My standards are high, and I'm very disappointed with what's happened recently. I'm here of my own volition.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes, I recognize that. You're one of those who came voluntarily, as did Mr. Goudie.

[Louise O'Sullivan]

I was taken aback, but I didn't have to refer to anyone; I accepted to come here.

My official agent has cancer. This is somebody I've known for 25 years. She couldn't be with us today because she has serious bone and breast cancer. I spoke to her on Friday--I'm under oath--and she was never approached; I was never approached.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Very good. Thank you very much.

In my last moment I'd like to ask Madame Fortier a question.

You made some very strong statements, Madame Fortier, that you personally confronted Stephen Harper before the last election saying that the Conservative organizers tried to force you to pass off $28,000 of national expenses as your own local campaign expenses. What was the reaction of Stephen Harper when you told him that?

[Ann Fortier]

With respect to election spending, there was no money... It wasn't with the party directly, but rather with someone from the association executive who fabricated some invoices.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Who from the Conservative Party approached your campaign asking you to take part in this financing arrangement?

[Ann Fortier]

We got that from the vice-president of the association, who pressured us hard to accept these imaginary expenses in order to increase—

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

What is his name, Madame Fortier?

[Ann Fortier]

The gentleman in question is called Jean-Guy Gamache. I don't like giving out names, but there comes a time. As I had got 10%, he decided to do that. In 2004, it was unusual for Conservative candidates to get 10% of the votes.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

So in 2006...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I apologize--

[Ann Fortier]

No, I did not receive anything in 2006. It was for the 2004 campaign that they were very keen to have me accept these false expenses, which I refused to do. We had until October 28, if I recall correctly, to have some extra time to change my returns. My official agent and I did it honestly. In the end, we refused to include these false expenses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Merci, madame.

Mr. Goodyear, please.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, welcome to all the witnesses. We certainly appreciate your being here in an attempt to get at the truth, the whole truth, and not just half the truth.

I would like to spend some time with Mr. Caldwell. Are you now running, or do you intend to run, for another party?

[Gary Caldwell]

After what happened and my concern that the Conservative Party was no longer interested in rehabilitating parliamentary institutions, as they did in 2004—

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Mr. Caldwell, I'm terribly sorry and I don't want to interrupt, but my time is very limited. Could you just answer the question?

[Gary Caldwell]

I decided to withdraw from the Conservative Party. I consulted my supporters and am now the candidate for the Green Party of Canada.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you.

Can I read to you a section of an interview that you taped on CTV? I believe it was question period. I just want to make sure that these are your words:

I was one of the candidates who accepted money from the national party into our local campaign, and it was to be spent on media. It was eventually spent on media. It went right out of our account. When I was faced with the problem of whether or not it was spent by us or the national party by the director of elections, I preferred to accept the advice of the director of elections. We re-filed with a new report. We returned the advance that we got, and I simply acquiesced in what I thought was a correct interpretation--that of the director of elections. The Conservative Party has a different interpretation, and it remains to be seen. There is a court case.

Mr. Caldwell, you're absolutely correct on that. There is an interpretation difference.

Those were your words. Is that correct?

[Gary Caldwell]

Yes. There's one that I would like to be a little more precise about: all the advances deposited or routed by the Conservative fund.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

But of course you knew that this money was going in. You had the option to say no at any time.