Evidence of meeting #46 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
I found that bizarre. They always claimed that they had money and were ready for an election. It was only afterwards, when Elections Canada spoke to me about the campaign company... I had no idea.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
So, you do not know what the $14,000 was used for—this infamous in-and-out.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
And yet, you found it curious that the party you were representing at the time had so much money.
As an Individual
When I was serving that party, I believed in its vision, but I found that it did not exercise as much integrity as it claimed. I was very disappointed about that.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
You are not going to run for the Conservative Party again.
As an Individual
Definitely not. I can say that it lost quite a few people.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Do you really have the impression that the scheme came from the party leadership?
As an Individual
I know a woman who worked for the party; she's a good friend of mine. During the 2006 election, the Conservative Party did everything it could to oust me. No one wanted to come forward and run against Mr. Coderre because everyone knew that they would be defeated. But after people became aware of the number of votes I had received, which was quite a bit higher than the numbers for my former colleagues, the decision was made to withdraw me.
That was all right. I had no real trouble with that. Honestly, I'm not here because I bear a grudge against them. Let me make this clear: what disappointed me was the fact that they used people who believed in a particular vision, and that at the end of the line, they threw it all away. I personally expected it, but I am disappointed for the others who gave of their time and who believed in the Conservative Party vision.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Thank you.
I'm sorry, Mr. Martin, there's a point of order called by Mr. Del Mastro.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Mr. Chairman, I've let it go a number of times, but both witnesses thus far have referred to a party, party spending, party this, party that. Once again I refer to your comments that we're not authorized and it's not within our mandate to determine any ethical standards of any party. We're here to talk about public office-holders. If the witness has something to talk about with respect to the conduct of public office-holders or if that is your line of questioning, that's fair ball, no problem, but there are assertions being made in the process of asking questions that are merely statements and have nothing to do with the question whatsoever. They're statements they would like to get on the record that are outside the mandate.
I urge you, when you are hearing those questions, in the interest of following the guidelines, that you rule those questions out of order. Keep it within bounds.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Thank you. That's not a point of order. That was debate.
I'm going to proceed now to Mr. Martin for seven minutes.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Martelli, for being here. We appreciate that very much. You seem like an honest, stand-up guy, and I thank you for being so frank with us.
Mr. Martelli, you said on CBC TV—you were interviewed on the national news, in fact—“Don't forget, you are frauding the population when you do this,” when they asked you about putting the $14,000 in, taking it out again, and then filing for a 60% rebate on that money as if it were a local campaign expense.
Do you want to expand on that? Do you see that as being fraudulent in practice to claim that it was a local campaign expense when it really wasn't?
As an Individual
As I said, sir, I was disappointed because I was lied to, and that, sir, is something I really do not take lightly.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
In other words, you were told everything was okay with this, that it was on the up and up.
As an Individual
Yes, exactly. It was a common thing that was happening.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
To your knowledge, though, that $14,000 never was spent in your riding as a local riding expense.
As an Individual
It never was, sir.
I'll tell you something, sir, if I had $14,000 to spend during that election, I think my publicity would have been a lot more than having one little article in the Guide de Montréal-Nord once a week that was given to us.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Yes, I suppose.
I know you answered Mr. Proulx's question in French, but let me ask you again in English, for the benefit of others: your official agent and your election campaign never had direction and control over that $14,000.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Would you say it wasn't in your account long enough to even control it, I suppose?
As an Individual
Mr. Martin, it was in less than 24 hours. As I remember—and I talked to Brian yesterday—all that happened was that they faxed him a paper where he was working, to sign this document and fax it back to them. The next thing you know, he sees $14,000 in the account, and the following day $14,000 is gone.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Disappearing out of the account.
Did anybody from the party contact you to ask you not to talk about the scheme?
As an Individual
Yes, sir, Mr. Michel Rivard, the accountant of the Conservative Party, in Quebec City.