Evidence of meeting #46 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
So you didn't read the elections handbook? You just went at it carte blanche?
As an Individual
I can't say it was carte blanche, because I trusted you guys. I figured that since we were new candidates, we would be guided properly.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Did you know that you would ultimately be held responsible for the decisions made, or that your financial agent would be held responsible?
As an Individual
No, because one of your comrades, Benoît Larocque, told me that everything would be fine and dandy.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
My next question is whether or not you're aware that it's possible that you weren't involved in an ad buy. This $14,000 that went in and the $14,000 that came out, are you absolutely sure it was for a regional ad buy, or are you just assuming that?
As an Individual
Monsieur, I'm assuming nothing. I'm just taking this from the words of one of your other co-workers, Mr. Benoît Larocque, who each time we talk to him doesn't know anything, but who told me that it was normal procedure, the in and out, and that for the other nine the accountants had done it too, so there was nothing to worry about, that everything was fine and dandy.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Are you aware that transfers of money into a campaign from the national party and back is perfectly legal, and that it is the opinion of Elections Canada?
As an Individual
Monsieur, if it were perfectly legal, why would Elections Canada be calling me and asking me certain questions?
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
That's exactly the question we're trying to get at. I appreciate your asking that.
Monsieur Mayrand stated that the transfer of funds from a national party to a campaign and from a campaign back is perfectly legal. What happened to you, sir, is perfectly legal according to Elections Canada. But if I could read you something--I did this this morning--I want to ask you if this is similar to what happened to you.
A lady named Lucy, the bookkeeper for the New Democratic Party of Canada, wrote in an e-mail to an official agent of Libby Davies in British Columbia:
Please find attached an invoice from the federal party. The original will follow by mail. It is our understanding that these radio ads promoted your candidate during the election period. Please forward payment to the election party, the federal party, as soon as possible. The amount should be reported as a candidate expense at the local campaign.
Now, Phyllis, the financial officer for Libby Davies, wrote back on March 30 and said:
This is not our invoice. Mindful about the extended campaign and limited budget, we were only able to take out a few ethnic ads, all coordinated through Stanley Tsao, the NDP B.C. Chinese media. A cheque of $1,500 for our portion was forwarded to the Canadian NDP party in cash. Please check, because this really, really is bad for our ceiling.
The very next day the bookkeeper for the national NDP party wrote back and said:
Hi, Phyllis, we are told by communication folks in B.C. that these were radio ads with the candidate's personal tag at the end, therefore, a local expense to be reported under the candidate's expense ceiling regardless of who pays. For rebate purposes you are being billed $2,612. The good news is that the federal party will transfer in $2,600 to the riding association's account. We hope you are able to squeeze this under the ceiling. Some expenses are considered election expenses and are not subject to spending limits and we....
Mr. Mayrand has said that transfers of funds in and out are legal. That is what happened to you, sir. The transfer of expenses is not. He admitted that's a difficulty of interpretation before the courts.
Does that sound similar to what happened to you? If it does, sir, why do you think that Elections Canada is not investigating the NDP?
As an Individual
I don't think the issue is with the NDP, sir. The issue is mostly with the Conservative Party, sir.
And to answer your question--
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order.
We're already past five minutes. You spoke for five minutes and then asked a question.
Sir, if you care to finish off your answer, I will allow you to do that.
As an Individual
I'll answer his question.
To answer your question, sir, if I were to have that $8,000 returned, hey, no problem. I'm sure I could have done a lot better to increase the.... But it wasn't the case, sir. That $8,000 didn't exist in our bank account.
By the way, I was never told that we were going to have radio coverage. I didn't have one day.
As an Individual
Excuse me, sir, I gave you time to talk. May I talk, please? Thank you.
By the way, we were never told about radio coverage, sir. There never was, and that never happened. That x amount of dollars that happened to have you for advertising, that never happened, sir.
Conservative
As an Individual
Sir, may I remind the gentleman that my tax dollars are paying his salary to be here.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Mr. Chairman, the gentleman just called me sweetheart. It's my anniversary tomorrow, so I'll accept that.