Information & Ethics Committee on Dec. 4th, 2020

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

It would be better in writing, because now I need to go on to the next questioner, Mr. Baylis, if you would, please.

Now we will go on to Mr. Sorbara, for five minutes.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, everyone.

Frank, it's nice to see you today. I know from our conversations that your father was a man of deep faith. I know he was proud before and very proud of you still and is looking down on you and your family today. God bless, and obviously my condolences.

I've listened to this testimony very closely and I've followed along in the last few months in the House of Commons the smear and fishing expedition that some of my honourable colleagues, who have been elected by their voters, have made to you.

Actually, I want to say sorry. I apologize for their doing that. I'm not going to take responsibility, but I do apologize because companies in Canada, from coast to coast to coast, whether it's here in the Woodbridge Group.... Mr. Jamieson, you're part of the auto parts supplier base in Canada, the APMA. What they've done, stepping up and building masks, PPE, you name it.... A lot of companies stood up here in Canada and said, “We will be there.”

That's what I want to thank both of you gentlemen for doing, for delivering almost 8,000 ventilators for Canadians who have been impacted by COVID-19, so we could save lives and put in place the health capacity we needed.

You are both entrepreneurs who directly and indirectly employ thousands of Canadians in several provinces, in very well-paying, good-benefit, great middle-class jobs. I thank you and I want to encourage you to continue doing that, because entrepreneurs are at the heart of our economy and businesses are at the heart of our economy.

Mr. Baylis, we know you are a former member of Parliament, one with a lot of integrity, a lot of intelligence and we do miss you.

Mr. Jamieson, just for full disclosure, it's my understanding—and I believe it's in the public record, too—that you have donated to candidates in the past. I just want to get it on the record that, if I'm not mistaken, you have donated to prior Conservative candidates in the past.

[Rick Jamieson]

Right, and as I said, it never dawned on me that politics would enter into any of my relationships with any subcontractors. It's the furthest thing from my mind.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you for stating that, because at this moment in time we are at as a country, in battling COVID-19, it is so important for us to stay focused.

Mr. Baylis, my understanding from what the Ethics Commissioner has disclosed is that there are no ongoing.... Have there ever been any ongoing investigations or any correspondence with you?

[Frank Baylis]

Mr. Sorbara, thank you for your kind words.

No. I learned when I watched a bit of the committee and he brought up my name. That was the first that I ever knew about his even looking into it. I assume he was hearing things so he looked into it and made his determination.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. Jamieson, in my riding, about a kilometre and a half or two kilometres away from here, is the headquarters of Martinrea. They employ 700 workers at an auto parts factory, so I know your business very well.

I'm just curious. Before COVID even broke out, was there any type of relationship between Baylis Medical and you and your companies?

[Rick Jamieson]

No, not even close.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

So, Mr. Baylis has a medical device company that has been around for decades, and you guys came together and brought expertise to make ventilators. Today we have almost 8,000 ventilators to help Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

[Rick Jamieson]

Mr. Sorbara, I'll just make one comment on that.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Please.

[Rick Jamieson]

What actually happened was, and I can tell you this.... It was a phenomenal time we were living in. I could call just about anybody. Normally when you talk to business people, they want an NDA. Nothing happens quickly.

Canadians really were amazing. You'd call someone for help and they'd tell you whether they could or couldn't do it. Often, they'd tell you things that were normally trade secrets, pretty darned quickly, to try to move the projects along.

I would just add that it's a funny thing for me, because it's an unusual thing to hear your name being used in the House of Commons. It was like, “Well, that's amazing.” Anyway, it's just a different thing for a small business guy from Guelph, Ontario, an entrepreneur.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Well, Guelph is a hub for innovation and we know how important the environment is there. We have a lot of great employers down there and a great MP who represents the riding.

Look. I had the Premier of Ontario in my riding, at the Woodbridge Foam Corporation, congratulating them. Actually, he came and picked up boxes and put them in his pickup truck to deliver—the Premier of Ontario at an auto parts factory here in my riding, an auto parts company just like yours. You've done the same thing that the Woodbridge Foam group did. You stood up for Canadians.

My other colleagues across the aisle might say there is something wrong with that. I don't. I applaud you and I applaud Mr. Baylis for coming together and delivering almost 8,000 ventilators of this contract that was provided.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Sorbara—

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

—and I say thank you for myself and all Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I gave you a little bit of extra time, Mr. Sorbara, but you're well over.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Now we have Madame Gaudreau, for two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Baylis, I want to express my condolences. I know what it's like to lose a father.

I want to pick up from where we left off earlier.

There's nothing better in life than taking action to save people's lives. I applaud your actions. That said, in an emergency, there are two ways to take action. For example, to put out a fire, we can either grab a small bucket or quickly plan our response and get the fire under control. In this case, in light of the information available, I have trouble understanding what happened. I'll need your help. Perhaps Mr. Godara can answer the question.

Mr. Godara, when you started working with Mr. Baylis, were you aware of his situation? Did you ask any questions?

As a former member of Parliament, inevitably, certain things will stick with you for a little while. You must be careful.

I'm asking you the question. When people tell us that something looks a certain way, it very quickly discredits the people involved. A government must be exemplary and as neutral as possible, especially in times of crisis. That's where shortcomings will be identified. As you know, in business, before experiencing growth or a decline, we take things into account.

Mr. Godara, I want you to tell us what you knew about Mr. Baylis. Did you ask any questions to understand the differences between the requirements for business and the requirements for public money in your contracts?

[Neil Godara]

I can answer that.

The reality is that Rick Jamieson and FTI had approached us to help support the ventilator program, and FTI was the one negotiating with the federal government. They were taking that on, and then we were a subcontractor to FTI. In that relationship, my responsibility was to ask what it was going to take to get the ventilators going—when manufacturing was going to start, when we had to hire people—and put all the calculations, put all the planning together to make them.

We weren't dealing with the government. We were dealing with FTI. We were dealing with our internal teams. That's really what we were focused on at that time, and it wasn't really in the conversation at that time. Mr. Jamieson consulting with the government just wasn't part of our conversation.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That's all the time we have.

Now we'll move on to Mr. Angus for three and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I understand all this, but—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Madame Gaudreau, your time is up. I'm sorry. I know that two and a half minutes goes very fast.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Angus, you have two and a half minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, gentlemen, for coming—