Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 6th, 2023

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Wow. Okay. That's some good negotiating. I got those 10 extra seconds.

I just want to give you a chance.... I think you highlighted some of this. What actions exist to strengthen the oversight of the SDTC going forward?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Kelloway, that sounds like a long answer.

Minister, if you can answer that in 15 seconds or less—

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

One or two things may not be a long answer, but I take your point.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say that the management response and action plan touched on governance, certainly. It talks about ethics, and it talks about project review. I have enjoined them to put that in place way before December 31, so that, if it is satisfactory—and I will want a third party audit that it is satisfactory—then we will restore the funding to the organization, but only when I am fully satisfied that we've gotten to the bottom of this, that the Auditor General has got to the bottom of this, and that we come out of this with an organization that has the trust of the people and the employees.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

Minister, I want to thank you and Mr. Kennedy for appearing today.

I am going to dismiss the witnesses, but before I do, I have a request for a project budget that I am going to need the committee's approval on. For this particular one, the amount requested is $1,750. Do I have the approval of the committee? I just need nods. Yes? Okay. There you go, Madam Clerk.

Do you have one more thing you need to deal with, Ms. Khalid? We need to adjourn and move into subcommittee. Go ahead.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Absolutely, Chair. I know that every single member of this committee has promised that we are going to prioritize the social media study, so I'm just wondering what happened to our witnesses on Wednesday. Where did they go? Did they cancel, or did you cancel on them?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's part of the discussion that we're going to have at the subcommittee, so I would rather—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I think I would like to know, Chair, because I'm not part of the subcommittee.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

You're talking about the social media study?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Yes, it's the social media study, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Madam Clerk, I have no problem discussing this right now, but if you want to advise Ms. Khalid what department officials have said about the social media study and their request to appear before the committee, go ahead, please.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Nancy Vohl]

Thank you.

To answer Ms. Khalid, invitations were sent over the last week to CSIS, the Centre for Cyber Security and to the rapid response mechanism from GAC. Only one of them emailed me and tried to call me during the meeting, so I don't know what the answer is. The two others, CSIS and the Centre for Cyber Security, said that they would not be available as early as Wednesday, and that they would be available only the week after.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Are they the only witnesses on our total witness list from all committee members?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

No, they're not, but we were trying to—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

That's exactly what I don't understand, Chair. I have been waiting and waiting, and I have been put on the back burner, and Canadians have been put on the back burner on this very, very important issue, and I get told that these two people we invited weren't available at this time, so we're going to mess around with important committee time just to....

I don't even understand what it is that we're trying to achieve here. I had a commitment from you, Chair, personally, on the record, and from members on this whole committee on the record that this is a priority. It's a priority for this committee; it's a priority for Canadians, and it's a priority for kids in my riding who are committing suicide regularly because of what is happening with social media on a daily basis. I'm just not understanding why you're obstructing this, Chair. I don't think you are, but I want to know why you are.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I am certainly not obstructing this study. We heard from the committee clerk that invitations were sent out. Those invitations were prioritized, and the response that we got back, in some cases this morning after the invitation was put out last week, was that they were not available and that they would be available only in the middle or at the end of November, so I'm not obstructing anything. I'm going only by what the witnesses are telling us after the invitations have been sent out. We're trying.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, respectfully, it's been a long, long time that we've been trying to get this done. If it's okay with you, Chair, I'd love to see a list of all the witnesses the whole committee has proposed, who has been invited and what that schedule looks like right now, because at this point in time I don't think the witnesses are at fault.

I think we need to do better as a committee to ensure that we are doing the work that Canadians expect us to do, rather than having committees like the one we had today and just having a subcommittee meeting in the second hour when we could have spent a whole hour listening to experts on what these issues are, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay. Thank you.

I just want to confirm this.

Madame Fortier, did you have the witness list, and did you share that with Ms. Khalid? It was distributed.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I had the witness list, but not who has been invited. I don't know who's been invited.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Exactly. We don't know who has been invited.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Barrett.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Chair, I saw we had a subcommittee meeting scheduled for the second hour today. My understanding was that it was the request of Liberal members to have a subcommittee meeting.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

That's not true, Chair.

For the record, Mr. Barrett, that is not true.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Chair, if I'm going to be shouted down by Iqra—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Let me clarify—