Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 20th, 2025

[Gabriel Hardy, Conservative, Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Blanchard, you're giving me a politician's answer.

[Marc-André Blanchard]

No, Mr. Hardy. I'm giving you a rigorous answer.

[Gabriel Hardy, Conservative, Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC]

The public is losing confidence in our institutions. Every time we ask questions, we hear about the comma or the period in the Conflict of Interest Act. People no longer trust the institutions. You said the goal was to avoid any conflict of interest for the Prime Minister. However, it appears to me the goal is to get the population to once again trust our institutions. Regardless of how good we think we are here, if people don't trust us, we'll have a problem, because it's by our actions that we lose their trust. We are here to represent them.

During his appearance here yesterday, Mr. Sabia said that to do an honourable job and avoid putting himself in a bad situation, he sold his shares. Everyone agreed he did the right thing.

In your opening remarks, you portrayed the Prime Minister as a virtuous knight who got into politics to save the country. If it was so important, why didn't he acknowledge that this was an exceptional situation which called for exceptional measures, meaning he had to sell his shares? Why did you allow yourself, the government, Mr. Sabia and the entire organization to be subjected to this pressure? Why let the public think the Prime Minister's getting richer?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

That's not uncommon. I gave the example of Nigel Wright who found himself in a similar scenario before. He had investments in a blind trust and in 40 businesses. He set up a system known as a “wall of ethics”. His situation was of a similar scale as the Prime Minister's. Those you're affiliated to said at the time that it was very simple and easy. In my experience, the process in place works very well and is not that complicated.

[Gabriel Hardy, Conservative, Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC]

The current situation is not the same as it was 40 years ago.

[Marc-André Blanchard]

My point is that Canadians trust Mark Carney.

[Gabriel Hardy, Conservative, Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC]

That is not what we are seeing. You are not working for a majority government. Most of the MPs in the House are not Liberals.

Yesterday, Mr. Sabia said that teams were working full time to make sure Mr. Carney avoids any missteps. How many people does that require? How much is that costing the government?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

As Mr. Sabia said yesterday, that's part of a lot of people's job. However, no one does that full time.

[Gabriel Hardy, Conservative, Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC]

How many people are on the team? Are there two part-time people or 100? It's not the same thing.

[Marc-André Blanchard]

As I said in my opening remarks, the wall of ethics being applied to the Prime Minister is one of the most rigorous I've ever seen in my career. I've been a lawyer and head of a law firm. I've also worked for the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, or CDPQ, an institutional investor. I've had to manage a lot of walls of ethics.

I think in this case the success of these measures will depend on how much they are communicated. People in government are aware. They know how important it is to report things that need to be reported. As a result, situations are managed efficiently and at a lower cost.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Blanchard.

Mr. Sari, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Abdelhaq Sari, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Blanchard, for joining us.

My questions will focus more on explaining things in simple terms for the people tuning in. The goal is to help them better understand this conflict of interest screen and how it works. We consider this an important step in maintaining public trust.

In simpler terms, can you explain how you determine that a conflict of interest screen should be applied to a particular case?

What are the steps to follow?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

Before applying a conflict of interest screen, we must conduct an analysis. We contact the departments and agencies concerned to obtain contextual information on the companies subject to the screen, meaning the companies listed in annex A.

We study the different sectors of the economy. If we identify sectors where these companies are more active, we pay particular attention to them. We have a list of questions, a kind of decision‑making lens that we apply to the situation in question.

First, the department comes to a conclusion. This conclusion is then discussed at the Privy Council Office. The Clerk of the Privy Council then makes a decision based on these facts and on the recommendation of the deputy secretary for governance. The deputy secretary will have held discussions with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner.

[Abdelhaq Sari, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Once the process has been followed, is the government informed?

If so, how does this work?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

Yes, the government is informed. As I said in my remarks, as soon as a flag is raised, the deputy secretary to the Privy Council and cabinet, meaning the person responsible for governance, is informed. Measures are then taken immediately to prevent the conflict.

To put it simply, the Prime Minister divested his assets. It was agreed with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner that, in the case of certain companies, the Prime Minister would avoid participating in meetings where the Government of Canada had to make decisions about them. The list of these companies was drawn up as a preventive measure. We established a system to ensure that the Prime Minister wouldn't run the risk of facing a conflict of interest.

It isn't a remediation measure. It doesn't mean that the Prime Minister is facing a conflict of interest. It serves to ensure that the Prime Minister doesn't end up in a conflict of interest situation.

[Abdelhaq Sari, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Sabia appeared before the committee yesterday. I would like to ask you the same question that he was asked.

How often do you and the Clerk of the Privy Council meet?

[Marc-André Blanchard]

Are you talking about me?

[Abdelhaq Sari, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Yes.

[Marc-André Blanchard]

I see him every day.

[Abdelhaq Sari, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I'm talking about your meetings to discuss the conflict of interest screen and the issue at hand today.

[Marc-André Blanchard]

We regularly discuss the conflict of interest screen. As I explained earlier, we're both familiar with the companies involved. We're familiar with the cases submitted to us. As soon as a flag is raised, we take the action described earlier.

We obviously hold follow‑up meetings regarding the process, for example. However, on a day‑to‑day basis, it's different. We do things on an ad hoc basis, as we hold our meetings, have our discussions and make our decisions.

[Abdelhaq Sari, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

My next question is perhaps more personal in nature.

You were Canada's representative to the United Nations, an executive vice‑president at CDPQ and head of CDPQ Global. You were responsible for multiple regions, including the United States, Latin America, Europe and Asia‑Pacific. You were also the chair and CEO of McCarthy Tétrault, a very large law firm.

Can you talk about your past activities and the areas where you have had to strengthen independence?

How do you approach governance while remaining independent?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

There are 20 seconds left.

[Marc-André Blanchard]

In my opinion, the rules, along with the corporate and group culture, are important. Rules are necessary and essential. However, it's also important to ensure that we develop a culture of ethics.

That's why I really like this mechanism and this tool. It helps to develop this culture within the government.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Blanchard.

That concludes our first hour.

We're going to take a little bit of a break, and when we come back, we're resetting the clock. The time we're suspended adds to the time at the end, so let's make sure we get back as soon as we can.

The meeting is suspended for a few minutes.