Information & Ethics Committee on March 9th, 2026

[Nancy Bélanger]

Yes, that's right. I suggest that you invite RCMP representatives to appear before you so that they can explain that to you. The RCMP is somewhat in the same situation as I am, in a way. Not all offences are created equal. There should be flexibility.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

People have come to tell us that the rules for public office holders should be in a single act, rather than in both the Conflict of Interest Act and the Lobbying Act.

What do you think?

[Nancy Bélanger]

You should ask people from the two offices where it exists. However, we have to be careful. Lobbying is not just done at the level of MPs and ministers. It is also done at the level of senators and departments. I am not at all the equivalent of the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, although I am to some people.

Former public office holders include senators and assistant deputy ministers, who are not necessarily governed by the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner.

If you want to consolidate all that into one office, it would be a matter of deciding which one.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

Mr. Barrett, you have five minutes. Go ahead.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

A former minister would have to clear their new work, profession or start-up with the Ethics Commissioner, and they would only need to register to lobby if they personally were lobbying for eight hours per month, and only to request grants or contributions, because that's covered by the act.

However, a former minister or a former member could start a company, pick up the phone and call one of their former cabinet colleagues and say, “Hey, we're doing this thing that's compatible with that thing you're about to spend billions of dollars on, and we think we're right for you,” and that is not captured by the Lobbying Act.

Do I understand that correctly?

[Nancy Bélanger]

If the communication they're having is about getting a contract, contracts are not covered under the Lobbying Act for organizations and corporations.

That's a problem, and I have a recommendation about that.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Tell me what your recommendation is for it.

[Nancy Bélanger]

My recommendation is that any communication in relation to contracts should be included in the Lobbying Act, and that's what they've done in provinces, except anything that is a communication within the parameters of a public process, like RFPs or standing offers. Those that are already transparent don't need to be covered by the Lobbying Act.

Anything outside of that, including that phone call to say, “Hey, I think we align, and I think we should be able to work together” would possibly be outside of a context that's in the public domain, and that should be covered.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

It's currently not covered.

[Nancy Bélanger]

It's not covered.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay.

What's more, in the example that I gave, the public reporting in the Financial Post was that Mr. Sajjan has also been retained by the Province of British Columbia to advise them on how to get this money as well, and how to “identify business opportunities to tap into the government's defence spending” as an adviser, and that works.

There's really no current practical limit to the connections and influence in securing government contracts by former ministers and members.

[Nancy Bélanger]

Securing government contracts and getting contracts is not covered by the Lobbying Act right now, so any communication by former designated public officers can't be—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Your recommendation is that it ought to be covered. Is that correct?

[Nancy Bélanger]

It ought to be covered, yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay, with that, I will turn it over to Mr. Cooper.

Thank you for your responses.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Go ahead, Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Further expanding on understanding the scope of the five-year prohibition on lobbying for designated public office holders, you noted that if a designated public office holder is working for a corporation, they can lobby eight hours per month. That's a problem; I agree.

If they're employed by an organization, they can't. If they tried to go out and lobby themselves in a consultant capacity, they couldn't do that.

What if they set up their own firm and hired people to engage in those very activities using their name, reputation and personal contacts? Would that be captured by the prohibition?

[Nancy Bélanger]

If they're not the ones communicating right now, it's not covered. They need to be the one communicating. If someone else communicates on their behalf, they're not the ones communicating.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Sturgeon River, AB]

It seems to me that's a pretty big loophole.

[Nancy Bélanger]

People call this shadow lobbying. They send someone else to lobby for them. At some point, where do we put the line? I don't know. It's not an easy one to regulate. On the revolving door of going from one side to the next, sometimes you want people's expertise and knowledge in certain areas, so we have to be careful about that as well. They can't be using their networks, and they can't be the ones to communicate. If someone else does it for them, what can I do, really?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Saini, you have five minutes. Go ahead.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

In your submission to the committee, you recommended that members of the board of directors be deemed employees of the organization or corporation on whose board they sit. Why do you think this amendment is necessary to the Lobbying Act?

[Nancy Bélanger]

Currently, board members of organizations have to register if they lobby for their organization, but their organization is deemed their client, which is awkward. If there are four board members on an organization, all four of them have to go and register—four different registrations for each of them—instead of having the organization do it and say, “We have four more members who lobby for us.” Instead of having one registration that would encompass all the lobbying that's done on behalf of that organization, we have possibly the organization and then four different consultants.

This is how it's dealt with in the provinces. It's a problem with the act right now, so it makes it very—I don't want to say dysfunctional, but the type of information that you get about the organization is fragmented. They are already required to register, but they register individually instead of being deemed employees of an organization.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Going back to the Leader of the Opposition, his staff are considered designated public office holders under section 128. Do we know if that is happening in practice?

[Nancy Bélanger]

Staff in the office of the Leader of the Opposition are only designated public office holders if they are appointed under section 128. I've been advised that none of them are, so they're not designated public office holders.