Evidence of meeting #31 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communication.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
The Leader of the Opposition's staff are free to do whatever they want to do because they are not designated as public office holders because they are not appointed under section 128 of the act.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Currently, they're not designated public office holders, so people who meet with them would not have to do the reporting, and they also are not subject to the five-year prohibition. Because the regulation right now says people appointed under section 128 are designated, people assume that they are appointed under section 128, so that needs to be clarified.
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
I think that's a big thing that we need to make sure happens. A minister and a leader of the opposition have similar opportunities to do favours for friends if they wanted to.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
They might.
Liberal
Gurbux Saini Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
When you appeared in October 2025, you said that, like your provincial counterpart, you have no discretionary power to make files public, and you don't have powers for people to undergo training or the ability to impose administrative penalties. Can you explain why the discretion to make files public is important? Why do you think you need the power to make people to undergo training?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The ultimate reason is to try to be more efficient in dealing with non-compliance and have the opportunity and the possibility to impose sanctions that are proportionate to the offence. For someone who's late and consistently late, if I impose the penalty, chances are that they'll never be late again. Now what I do is tell them not to be late. If they're late again, I send them a letter, and there are no consequences.
Right now, if I choose to investigate someone who's constantly late, if I have reason to believe that they're late and therefore they've committed an offence, I need to send that to the RCMP. Not all offences under the Lobbying Act are created equal but, unfortunately right now, they're all treated the same, and it's difficult to manage. I think it would help efficiency and it would help compliance, because I would be able to make those things public faster.
Liberal
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I don't know if I would say “every”. Some provinces don't even have the power to investigate. I've flagged in my report that British Columbia has powers to impose penalties. I think Alberta does as well. I think Ontario only has the power to prohibit. I've given you examples in my recommendations. I don't know them all by heart.
Conservative
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
I want to talk about a very interesting topic. A former defence minister in the Trudeau government just started his own company. It's a start-up that is currently targeting government announcements. Of course it's normal to have a life after politics. Everybody wants that. However, it does raise questions. His client would be Canada. He knows a lot of people, and he has a lot of contacts. He's the president of the company.
First, in your opinion, should this company be subject to the lobbying requirements?
Second—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Hold on a second, Mr. Hardy. There's a point of order.
Go ahead, Ms. Church.
Liberal
Leslie Church Liberal Toronto—St. Paul's, ON
I have great reluctance to interrupt, but could we please refrain from using examples of real individuals in hypothetical circumstances? I just think that does a bit of a disservice to all parliamentarians.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
It's Mr. Hardy's time. He's going to bring it back to whatever point he wants to make. I generally don't interrupt any member, whatever direction they want to go, because it's their time.
Mr. Hardy, you may continue.
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
Since it's a private company, I imagine that it acts entirely legally and that it is not covered by the Lobbying Act. I'm using him as an example, but it could be anyone else. He can start a company, and the fact that he's looking to have the Government of Canada as a client is not a problem. He can, as the owner of the business, use his contacts and go ahead.
Do I understand correctly?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
We have to be careful. You said, “looking to have the Government of Canada as a client”. When public office holders leave office, they can do whatever work they want to. The only thing that concerns me is communications with the federal government on subjects that are specified in the Lobbying Act.
Since former public office holders are not allowed to have such communications, that concerns me. Any communication by an employer or a company about a contract is not considered lobbying. However, if it's a communication to obtain a grant, that's lobbying. A former public office holder would be prohibited from having that kind of communication if it was about getting a grant.
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
However, his employee has every right to do so.
Is that correct?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, that's correct.
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
Okay.
Is someone who has worked in the government allowed to call the government to ask what decisions are coming up because they want to start a business in this field?
Do you think people can get out of politics, call their contacts and decide to set up a business knowing that there is a potential opening?
People can call their friends to find out what the trends are and then start a business in that field. They can get a contract from the Government of Canada through their contacts without going through your office.
Do you see that as a problem?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, I think that looking for contracts should be an activity subject to the Lobbying Act, with a few exceptions. I made a recommendation in that area.
As for the opportunity for former public office holders to start a business in a field they are very familiar with and that gave them expertise, that is the responsibility of the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, not mine.
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
However, what if someone decides to start a lobbying business and meets the threshold of eight hours a month?
They're not allowed to lobby for more than eight hours a month, are they?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
If that person has a lobbying firm, they will have clients. As a consultant lobbyist, the threshold is zero. Consultant lobbyists are not allowed to communicate. The eight-hour threshold doesn't apply to them.
Conservative
Gabriel Hardy Conservative Montmorency—Charlevoix, QC
As a result, they cannot personally handle communications.
Is that correct?
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, they can't do it personally. However, if an individual sets up a consulting lobbying business and its employees engage in lobbying while the individual does not, it is allowed.