Finance Committee on Dec. 7th, 2021

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I have a question about business subsidies.

Do you know whether other sectors are suffering from the crisis as much as the tourism and hospitality sectors, which I'm pleased to see included in the bill?

[Yves Poirier]

Thank you for the question. Perhaps I can answer it.

There's a certain willingness to help the tourism sector in particular through these subsidy programs—

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I think our French is gone—not that I don't mind practising it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Yes, I'm having the same experience.

We're not getting interpretation.

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay.

We stopped the time, so you have two minutes left.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

I'll repeat my question, which is very straightforward. Do you know whether any other sectors have suffered from the pandemic as much as the tourism and hospitality sector?

[Yves Poirier]

As I was saying, these programs focus mainly on the tourism sector, which has been particularly affected by the health and travel restrictions. However, the two programs as a whole, the tourism program and the hardest‑hit business program, cover all sectors of the economy.

As far as I know, businesses are facing challenges in all sectors of the economy. That's why these programs aren't sector‑specific. The programs are available to all businesses facing challenges, regardless of the sector, as long as they meet the eligibility criteria.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

I'll continue along the same lines. We're aware of the various issues caused by the pandemic. Some sectors have been directly affected by the pandemic. If businesses are struggling financially as much as businesses in the tourism and hospitality sector, especially given the supply chain disruptions during the pandemic, they fall directly into the category of the hardest‑hit businesses. Could we then include them in these programs or ensure that they're treated the same as tourism and hospitality businesses?

[Yves Poirier]

On that note, I also want to bring up the local lockdown program. In the event of additional lockdowns that lead to the disruption of certain supply chains, for example, all affected businesses could be eligible for a subsidy program that would basically provide the same thing as the tourism and hospitality recovery program.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

In addition to lockdowns, there's talk of long‑term consequences for some businesses whose supply chains have been hit hard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you. We've reached the time.

Thank you very much.

We're moving to the NDP. We now have Mr. Blaikie for two and a half minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

We've heard in a few places that the anticipated budget for these measures is just over $7 billion. Is that fair to say? I'm just looking for a yes.

All right. I got a yes. Great.

What proportion of that is for the Canada worker lockdown benefit?

I'm sure somebody's doing a drum roll, but they're on mute.

[Catherine Demers]

I'm not sure if my colleagues could provide an answer to that. What we can say is that the estimated use and volume are difficult to estimate because it depends on whether there will be the occurrence of regional lockdowns.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

But there is a budget: Some of that $7 billion is an allocation for the Canada worker lockdown benefit. Is that not true?

[Catherine Demers]

Yes, for the ensemble of the measures. I think this is something that perhaps.... I'm not sure if I would turn to my colleagues at Finance, but certainly for the lockdown benefit we know that the estimated volume is a number that is difficult to predict. That said—

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

But there is an estimate, and I guess I'm curious to know what is the estimate. I get that it's difficult to come up with an estimate, but somebody did, because there's a budget number. What is the estimate and how did you arrive at it?

[Catherine Demers]

Perhaps, if I'm not seeing anyone from Finance, we can take this question back, if that's okay with you.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I guess so. I have to say this is the kind of question that I really would have thought would not be a difficult one when we get a briefing from officials, particularly when the government has been very up front about a budgetary forecast for the bill.

There are two main components. There are the measures that fall roughly under the Canada emergency wage subsidy programming and then the Canada worker lockdown benefit. I would have thought that we were not getting into difficult questions just in asking what amount is allocated for the worker lockdown benefit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

We'll move to the Conservatives with Mr. Stewart for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a couple of points of interest. I do think it's not benefiting any of the members of the committee that there aren't officials here from CRA, who could answer some of the questions that Finance obviously can't answer with relation to policy. I think it would be beneficial to have CRA officials appear as witnesses tomorrow. I think that would be helpful. I want to make that statement for now.

First question: Can any of the witnesses tell me how much it is going to cost to administer the full suite of programs? We know that it's around $7.4 billion worth, or at least that was the initial forecast, but how much is it going to cost to administer the programs?

[Maximilian Baylor, Senior Director, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

On part 1 of the bill, we don't have those estimates in hand, but we can certainly get back to the committee on the administration costs for the total figure that has been committed.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

We know that $7.4 billion worth of funding is going to be doled out to people who are deserving or, potentially, not at all. My question is very simple. If you can have a budgetary item and if the government can be prepared to fast-track $7.4 billion in spending without actually telling anyone where the money's coming from, I think it's very important for all the members on the committee here today to know exactly what it is going to cost to dole out $7.4 billion. I'm asking again: What will be the cost to administer this suite of funding?

[Maximilian Baylor]

As I indicated, Mr. Chair, we can return with the cost breakdown, but we just don't happen to have those numbers at this stage.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Mr. Chair, with all due respect, at this stage, we are in day two of proceedings that are not going to last for very long.

Will we be able to determine what this will cost to administer tomorrow? Will the answer to this question be here tomorrow? That's through the chair, of course.