Finance Committee on May 29th, 2023

Evidence of meeting #94 for Finance in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Committee Business

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee Mr. Alexandre Roger

Philippe Méla Legislative Clerk

Ariane Gagné-Frégeau Legislative Clerk

Miriam Burke Legislative Clerk

Jean-François Lafleur Legislative Clerk

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

I'd like a recorded vote.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

We'll have a recorded vote.

(Clause 244 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

On new clause 244.1, CPC-16, I do have a ruling.

Bill C-47 amends several acts, including the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act. The amendment seeks to establish a new mechanism to reassess the method of calculation of the fiscal equalization payments following a provincial referendum on the matter. This is a new concept that was not envisioned in the bill when it was adopted by the House at second reading.

As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, states on page 770, “An amendment to a bill that was referred to committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.”

Therefore, and for the above-stated reason, I rule the amendment inadmissible.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Yes, go ahead on a point of order.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

I wish to seek clarity on this, but before that I have a point of order.

There's nowhere in the motion, if you'd like to read it, that says that discussion of a chair's ruling is prohibited.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

The motion says that there is no debate.

May 30th, 2023 / 9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

This is discussion of a chair's ruling.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

There is no debate. It has been ruled inadmissible. So we are—

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

I will challenge the chair.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Okay, we have a challenge.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

Just to be clear, the challenge is on whether we are allowed to debate a chair's ruling.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

That is not debatable.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

That is challengeable. You've made a decision.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Are you challenging my ruling, MP Lawrence?

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

I am challenging your ruling that I'm not allowed to debate your ruling.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Your understanding is incorrect, MP Lawrence. You can only challenge the chair's ruling.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

The chair is ruling that I can't challenge the chair.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

You can only challenge the chair's ruling. I've conferred with the legislative clerk.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

This is very Liberal. You cannot challenge—

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

There's a vote.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

So the chair has argued that I can't challenge—

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

There's no debate, MP Lawrence.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

It seems about par for the course.

I will challenge your ruling, then.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Fonseca

Mr. Clerk, go ahead.

The Clerk

This is a vote on the challenge of the chair's ruling.