Finance Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2026

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

No one's rights are being taken away.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

You're taking away people's right to have an impact assessment and their right to challenge the decision, Minister. We pointed that out in the House today.

Did Alto ask for the part of Bill C-15 that is before us, or was it your idea? Did it come from the government?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

There's a desire to speed up the project, and obviously, when the construction of a major infrastructure system or nation-building project is being proposed, we consult with all relevant stakeholders. Of course, we sought advice on how we could accelerate completion of this great project.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

If I understand correctly, you are saying that the reason Canada is no longer able to do great things is that citizens have too many rights when it comes to expropriation. That is the country's problem, in your view. After a decade in power, you haven't been able to accomplish great things because the citizens of Mirabel, people who are deeply scarred because of the treatment they received from the federal government in the past, people who are worried, have too many rights.

Is that what you're saying?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

No. I'm not going to let you put words in my mouth, Mr. Garon.

We introduced a process to accelerate the completion of this linear infrastructure project, while upholding the rights and principles already in use in other jurisdictions, specifically Quebec and Ontario, and making sure that landowners have the right to be heard and to negotiate—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

They also have the right to be expropriated without prior notice, as Mr. Albas pointed out.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

It's not true that there is no prior notice. The process provides for prior notice, Mr. Garon.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Minister, you are giving yourself the right to control people's land, once they've been notified, for two years, rather than 120 days. It's 120 days for every other project in Canada, but for us, it's two years.

Are you willing to make an exception for agricultural land, knowing that no one is going to want to build condos or call in an engineer to increase their land value because the land is the subject of negotiations? Productivity and food security come into play. Under Bill C-19, your government announced that it would be sending out cheques to help people.

Would you be willing to reduce the time frame to 120 days for farmland in the agricultural zones of the Commission de protection du territoire agricole du Québec?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Please give a very brief answer.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

The principle set out in the bill seeks precisely to prevent a landowner from planning major improvements to their property. It's not about preventing them from planting—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Minister and Mr. Garon.

That concludes this round.

We're going to continue with Mr. Albas for five minutes, please.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Minister, earlier we were talking about independent appraisals, but I'm really confused. You said earlier, in response to Mr. Garon, that the bill specifically protects and gives people a heads-up when their land is going to be changed. Can you point out to me which section?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I'll ask my deputy. I don't have the bill at hand.

Mr. Robitaille may be able to answer that.

[Vincent Robitaille, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs, Department of Transport]

In the bill, what you have is only the sections that will change. Is that right? All of the other sections of the Expropriation Act will remain the same. The thing about prior notice before expropriation starts will remain, as will the notice of expropriation after.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

How long is the appropriation notice?

[Vincent Robitaille]

I will confirm the time, but it is well in advance of expropriation.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Okay. I'd like to know a number for “well in advance”.

Minister, while that's being looked at, the bill essentially lets Ottawa freeze or take land, but it gives landowners no statutory right of appeal. Why would your government oppose giving Canadians a simple right to seek a review at the Federal Court?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

It's in the bill. There's a possibility of appealing all of this to the Federal Court, just like any citizen can appeal any federal matter to the Federal Court.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Okay. That's an important protection for them to have.

Minister, again, what about the ability to have two independent appraisals? What happens if you have a retiree who is unable to afford to get their own independent appraisal and to contest these at the Federal Court? What happens to the cases of those people? Your own government has said that people are experiencing an affordability crisis.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Robitaille can comment on appraisals.

[Vincent Robitaille]

Again, it's important to read the change as only specific amendments. The rest remains the same. Landowners have the opportunity to have an independent appraisal of their land and that it be taken into account in the value of the land that's being purchased.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Talking of having the ability to do so, in the case I just gave you of someone who can't afford to do so, that's not a right at all.

[Vincent Robitaille]

No. In this case, the cost of doing this work is included in the compensation that's going to be provided to landowners.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Okanagan Lake West—South Kelowna, BC]

Will they be given two independent assessments, or will it be Alto simply giving its assessed value, and then they have to contest that value at court as being the lowest it starts at?

[Vincent Robitaille]

In this case, we need to take into account that Alto can purchase the land on a “willing buyer, willing seller” basis. If we get to expropriation, it is the minister of PSPC who does it. I just wanted to clarify that. The minister of PSPC would get their own appraisal. If the landowner wants to get their own appraisal, it is possible, and it's an eligible cost—