Finance Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2026

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Yes, this is a project that is still subject to the Impact Assessment Act.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Lefebvre.

We are going to continue with Mr. Fragiskatos for four minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

In fact, Madam Chair, we're going to split the time. Mr. MacDonald will begin, and then he'll throw it over to me.

[Kent MacDonald, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you.

Just where I left off, Minister MacKinnon, can you elaborate on what the expected contributions and benefits of the high-speed rail project are going to be to the Canadian economy and to Canadians?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Well, the first thing I want to say is that I know how important safe, reliable ferry service is, especially to the people of Cardigan. That will be there forever, as far as I'm concerned. We all remember the date of the opening of the Confederation Bridge and how much of a transformative event that was for Prince Edward Islanders. This is no less transformative. In fact, it may be more so for people living along this route, close to this route or within driving distance of this route.

Also, remember that the goal is to have multimodal accessibility on this route. We want to be close to the REM in Montreal. We want to be close to Metrolinx. We want to be close to public transit in Toronto. We want to be close to other regional services for transit and for transportation. This will be a transformative project.

[Kent MacDonald, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thanks for the clarity.

I'll cede the rest of my time to my colleague.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. MacDonald.

Minister, thank you for being here.

I have a general question, seeing that I only have a short amount of time.

Can you speak to the complexity of getting something like this built? Many other advanced industrialized democracies have had high-speed rail for a very long time. There's this ongoing question that's been posed frequently, I would say, by constituents over the years: Why not high-speed rail in Canada? Why haven't we been able to get it done, and how can we get it done now? I think all MPs have had this experience.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Let's agree that this is a project of significant complexity. It's over 1,000 kilometres of dedicated line, straight line; there aren't many curves. There can be some, but in order to achieve the speeds that we're looking for, this is a piece of linear infrastructure. Anyone who studies the construction of linear infrastructure projects around the world will tell you just how difficult they are. We must do the engineering and the land assembly. We must plan, in some cases, intricate entries into cities like Montreal and Toronto. This is a major engineering project; it's a major construction project. It's one where if we do not take active measures to shorten the planning process, that will significantly delay the construction.

I should mention that delaying the construction by any amount, delaying in any significant way, costs billions and tens of billions of dollars. Canada can do itself a favour by moving forward the date at which we begin the construction of that first segment between Montreal and Ottawa and by then closely after that following in parallel to construct the Toronto to Ottawa and Montreal to Quebec City portions of the project.

This is a popular project. It makes people imagine a better future in many cases. It offers new possibilities to up to 40% of Canada's population, and it is a test and a sign of our ability to get big things done. I think it is an outstanding proposal. This is but one measure that we are proposing to make sure we can get to creating the projects. It's interesting to me that many of the debates we have in the House of Commons are about how we accelerate projects and that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Minister.

We're going to have to conclude that round here.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

—many of the debates we're having here are about how we can remove the means to accelerate those projects.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Fragiskatos.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor for the last two minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I am going to surprise you by saying that I agree with you on one thing, and perhaps even more than one. I, too, am a member of Parliament in Ottawa. I, too, am eager to have a fast train between Montreal and Ottawa. We clearly have a transportation problem. I am one of the enthusiastic people.

It's like Daniel Bélanger's song, Tout est dans la manière: It’s all in the way you do it. You are amending the law specifically for the Alto project. There has been talk of impact assessments, the right to a hearing before a commissioner, and so on. It is clear that this will change the balance of power in the negotiations and that there will be private negotiations. It’s obvious that, by definition, this will change things. It’s also obvious that it will speed up the project; I agree with you.

However, you said something interesting, namely, that because of existing laws, it may no longer be possible to build anything big in this country. So why change the law just for the high-speed rail project? Why didn’t the government simply decide to use the Expropriation Act, as it did for Mirabel, for the Lower Laurentians and for this linear infrastructure corridor? If we are unable to build, why not simply change the law? Doesn’t the fact that the government is not doing so confirm that the current law is highly legitimate?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

We were talking about Lac-Mégantic earlier. I understand the heart-wrenching debate that took place in that region regarding the bypass. Some people were not happy with the railway bypassing the town because of the impact it would have on the community. However, we cannot deny the number of years it took to get to this point. For me, this is the perfect example. Whether you like the decision made regarding Lac-Mégantic or not, it illustrates my point very well. It is 13.5 kilometres of—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Why not change the entire act? Why change it just for the high-speed train?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Please provide a brief answer.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

We are amending the Expropriation Act specifically for a project that will only be done once. Amending the act for all future work seems senseless to me when we will only be building one high-speed train.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Minister.

That concludes Mr. Garon’s speaking time.

On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank Minister MacKinnon, his deputy minister and Mr. Robitaille for joining us today.

That concludes this hour with the Minister of Transport. We will take a brief suspension before returning.

Thank you, colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

I am calling this meeting back for the second hour. We will resume the meeting.

I would like to take a minute to welcome our witnesses.

From Alto, we have Martin Imbleau, the president and CEO; Robert Godbout, vice-president of finance; Félix Turgeon, chief legal officer; and Marc-Olivier Ranger, chief strategic policy and partnerships officer.

Welcome. We are delighted to have you here today.

I would just like to remind everybody about interpretation because this might be your first time. It's available in both official languages. There is a QR code, I believe, on the desk for using the headsets.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

Mr. Imbleau, I'll pass it over to you, please. Thank you.

[Martin Imbleau, President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA HFR – VIA TGF Inc.]

Madam Chair, thank you for giving us the opportunity to discuss Alto and the implications of Bill C-15.

Alto is a true high-speed rail service, like the kind we experience in Europe. It will span nearly 1,000 kilometres of fully electrified, dedicated passenger tracks linking Toronto to Quebec City. It's fast, frequent and reliable.

Alto will cut travel times in half and strengthen economic productivity across Canada's busiest corridor.

Last February, the government made three foundational decisions. It chose a high-speed rail option; it selected Cadence, a consortium with strong Canadian roots and international expertise, as Alto's private partner; and it provided funding to move the project forward.

In September, the government committed to a four-year construction start. In December, Minister MacKinnon and I announced that its first phase will connect Ottawa to Montreal, and construction would start in 2029. In 2025, we shifted from the “why” to demonstrating the “how”.

Two weeks ago, Alto began a corridor-wide public consultation process that includes open houses, virtual sessions and round tables. The first phase of the consultation process is built on best practices: start early, be transparent and use what we hear to refine the work. A second round will follow this fall, at which point we will present the detailed alignment. Although this approach takes much more time up front, it will ensure longer-term success.

The level of engagement to date has already exceeded our expectations. To this day, more than 2,300 people have attended our open houses and 1,800 people attended our virtual sessions just this last Saturday. This week, we will be in Toronto, Terrebonne and Saint-Eustache.

We will also be adding sessions in Mirabel and Ontario in the coming weeks.

At the same time, consultations with indigenous communities are continuing, of course. The comments gathered will also be used to determine a specific route, which we will present to the affected communities next fall.

A project of this scale cannot move forward without a clear framework on all aspects. That clarity is essential not only for Alto but also for the industries, stakeholders, indigenous partners and landowners. Predictability is the name of the game.

The measures proposed by the government are critical for Alto to deliver the project with clarity and certainty. Without proper measures, you will call me in a few years to question me about the delays in starting the construction and the extra costs associated.

That said, these measures come with responsibilities. Anything affecting private property is deeply sensitive and “expropriation” is a loaded word. It's not something we take lightly. It has real impacts on peoples' lives.

Obviously, the Mirabel region is even more sensitive in this regard. We are fully aware of this.

I also want to be very clear about one thing. Right now we are evaluating a corridor that can be up to 10 kilometres wide. That is not the footprint of the railway. In reality, high-speed rail typically takes around 60 metres in width.

Projects of this scale also require legislative tools that support sound cost management and reduce financial risk. Of course, voluntary agreements with landowners will be the preferred approach. That has been what I have done for 30 years on big projects.

However, the bill provides for changes to expropriation measures. Alto could, and undoubtedly will, have to resort to them. The right of first refusal will help prevent land speculation. The provision prohibiting certain types of work is intended to prevent non-essential work from artificially increasing the value of land that may be required. These tools must be put in place now so that the mechanisms are in place and known once the route has been chosen.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Imbleau.

We will start with Mr. Muys for six minutes, please.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all of the witnesses who are here today.

Building a rail line takes a lot of steel. I'd like to ask if you have an estimate of the volume of steel that would be used in the Alto project, the number of tonnes or a range of the number of tonnes.

[Martin Imbleau]

It requires tonnes of steel, concrete, copper and aluminum. In terms of steel, it's probably a bit more than 600,000 tonnes of steel. One third of it would be for the tracks. The rest would be for the structural steel that is required.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

That is quite a large volume, 600,000 tonnes. Certainly, the federal government, the minister and you have all stated that these high-speed rail projects will prioritize the use of Canadian steel. In fact, the government held a famous rail summit in the steel town of Hamilton in August. I asked an order paper question of the government back in June 2024. This government acknowledged that it does not track and has not historically tracked whether federally funded infrastructure projects use Canadian produced steel.

Therefore, given the lack of clarity here—and you spoke to that in your opening remarks—what specific mechanisms will also be put in place to track, verify and publicly report the portion of Canadian steel used in this project versus steel from elsewhere?

[Martin Imbleau]

I sometimes joke, saying that this project is a “weapon of mass construction”. It's going to be a huge undertaking.

I was there in Hamilton for the summit. Since then, even before the buy Canada policy was implemented, we reached out to the industry. The intent is to maximize the local usage of steel and also to prepare for the supply in 2030 or shortly thereafter. The industry has to prepare to supply us, and the intent is to try to focus and to supply basically all materials as locally as possible, while keeping the competitive tension to afford the right price.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook—Brant North, ON]

You didn't quite answer the question. Are there mechanisms that are actually going to track and verify that? It's great that the conversations have been held, and it's obviously important that those have been held in Hamilton, which is Steeltown. However, are those processes going to be in place as you get into the details this fall, which isn't that far away?