Finance Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2026

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

In 2018, the European Union conducted an audit on high-speed rail projects, whose costs had increased by an average of—get this—78%. I don't know if you have seen that or looked at it. If you have looked at it, what mistakes were made? You're basically lucky to be able to consult those projects so that you don't repeat the same mistakes. Were you aware of the mistakes that had been made in that regard?

[Martin Imbleau]

Yes, of course. If we look at examples elsewhere, such as California, which is really not a good example, or the recent examples in England and the failures—

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I'm sorry to cut you off, but could you give me an example of what was done wrong in the California project?

[Martin Imbleau]

The mistakes were having no budget to do the project, doing it piecemeal, starting in the middle of nowhere and going to the middle of nowhere: a recipe for disaster. In the case of the England project, the mistake was to have land acquisition processes that weren't standardized enough, which meant construction was carried out without a defined framework for land acquisition. That meant that construction would begin but have to stop, resulting in delays and drastic increases in costs.

The universal recipe for success is to take our time to get started and to do our homework before making promises. Once the project is well defined, announcements are made and things speed up. We don't do the opposite. We don't speed up too quickly. We take our time at the beginning. We'll move faster tomorrow.

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

My colleague said it earlier. As elected officials, every day, we deal with human beings who are experiencing human tragedies. Our role is to try to support our fellow Canadians in response to the various challenges they face. Expropriation will be a very emotional process for people, whether they're young families, farmers or seniors.

Can you guarantee that these people will be met in person? These are human beings who are behind these lands, who own these lands. Will there be meetings with these people to discuss the process that will be followed and to reassure them?

[Martin Imbleau]

Mr. Lefebvre, I personally promise you that any owner who wants a physical meeting with a living, breathing person, a human with a beating heart at Alto, will meet with someone, without exception. That's how I've done projects in the past. Maybe a procedure will be used, but at least we'll have established a human relationship with all the people who will be affected by this project. I give you my word on that.

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Imbleau, I greatly appreciate that, and I thank you for making that promise today.

This is really a question: In terms of environmental studies, are we looking at a provincial study, a federal study or both?

[Martin Imbleau]

Since the project is federal and crosses provincial borders, it will be subject to the federal environmental assessment process, which will begin a little later this year or early next year. We have had the opportunity to inform our provincial partners that we will obviously seek to involve them and take into account their concerns, objections, suggestions, and perhaps also their criticisms, as part of the environmental assessment process, which will be led by the federal government.

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Bill C-15allows for expropriation notices to be sent in a simple email. Would you agree with us moving an amendment to remove that power to ensure that, as you committed to ensuring, people will be able to meet with a member of your team?

[Martin Imbleau]

We'll meet with everyone in person; I promise you that again. The email will be the owner's choice. If they prefer a more formal process and a registered letter to keep track of documentation, we'll be happy to follow that longer process. Really, if somebody says they're more comfortable with a registered letter, as in the good old days, we'll follow that process exactly, no problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Imbleau.

Thank you, Mr. Lefebvre.

Mr. Leitão now has the floor for five minutes.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good evening, Mr. Imbleau, and your colleagues. Thank you for appearing at this meeting.

I have a question about your earlier comments on steel. You mentioned that about two-thirds of the steel you will eventually need could be supplied by Canadian producers. However, there's still a missing third that Canadian producers can't supply at this time.

A number of other public services, such as Hydro-Québec and Ontario Power Generation, have turned to private sector suppliers through long-term framework agreements that include certain guidelines. Could Alto consider that kind of agreement with private sector companies that could supply the remaining third of the steel?

[Martin Imbleau]

That's indeed the goal of this consultation with the Canadian industry.

What are the characteristics of the contracts needed to ensure that long-term supply? We're talking about 4,000 kilometres of steel rail. For us, that's enormous. That's over 200,000 tonnes of steel. For the steel industry, let's be honest, it's pretty small. They need predictability over perhaps the next 10 or 15 years, then. We're prepared to provide that predictability. It remains to be seen whether that's enough to make significant changes to existing infrastructure or to build new capacity. That isn't clear. We don't have the answer yet.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you for the clarification.

One of my colleagues mentioned earlier the lessons that could be learned from what went wrong in projects abroad, whether in England or California. The California example is indeed very interesting.

When it comes to major Canadian infrastructure and transportation projects in Quebec and Ontario in recent years, are you talking to your colleagues at the Réseau express métropolitain, or the REM, or at Metrolinx, for example, to assess what has worked less well, what hasn't worked at all, and what has worked very well?

For example, recently, everyone who lives in the Montreal area knows that there have been a lot of comments about the effects of temperature on the REM. Yes, it's cold. Surprise, surprise.

Are you talking to your colleagues at the REM, then, for example, or other Canadian companies that have recently built major infrastructure projects?

[Martin Imbleau]

It's essential to do so, because the lessons learned from the LRT in Ottawa have been passed on to us. There are lessons to be learned. Metrolinx is currently developing some of the largest transportation infrastructure projects. There are many lessons to be learned there, whether in terms of tunnels or other extensions, so we're in regular contact with our partners at Metrolinx. It's the same thing for the Montreal metro or the REM. In our consortium, we're fortunate to have the people from the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec who managed the REM.

It's hard to do infrastructure projects. We have to stay very humble about the right ways of doing things, so we welcome all recommendations and all lessons learned. If we're missing anything, let us know: We'll make ourselves available to learn.

[Carlos Leitão, Liberal, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Now, to go back to a more basic level, you'll be having conversations with the major steel producers and the major equipment manufacturers. However, when it comes to Canadian small and medium-sized businesses, or SMEs, in Quebec, Ontario and the rest of the country, are you going to put processes in place to ensure that the benefits of this very large project are maximized for those Canadian businesses?

[Martin Imbleau]

This is particularly close to my heart. I'm currently touring all the chambers of commerce along the corridor. My message is always to get ready, because the object in the mirror is much closer than it appears, so businesses have to be ready to respond to fairly large calls for tenders. They're told that if they want to maximize the benefits, they have to join forces so that small businesses can benefit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Imbleau and Mr. Leitão.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Imbleau, I just want to come back to the right to be heard.

If sections 8, 9, 10 and 11 of the Expropriation Act are suspended, that leads to the situation that the minister described, which is that the expropriated person can challenge the minister's decision in Federal Court. That's called the right of appeal. Do I understand the conditions surrounding the expropriation decision?

[Félix Turgeon, Chief Legal Officer, VIA HFR – VIA TGF Inc.]

What I'd like to add is that once the owner receives the notice, their first recourse is to inform the minister of their opposition. Once the owner has indicated their opposition to the minister, if the minister still decides to proceed with the expropriation, and the owner requests it, the minister has to write to the owner and set out the various reasons for their decision. Then the process continues to move forward, and it becomes a question of money, or the value of the acquisition. If the parties don't agree on the amount of the transaction, everything comes back to the general legislation. Bill C-15 doesn't change the process set out in the general legislation.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

However, the audience with a commissioner is removed in the first part.

During your activities in Laval, people from my riding, former expropriated people, went to see you and asked you to hold a consultation in Mirabel. I'm very pleased that you confirmed today that you will be coming to visit us. I think people will give you a warm welcome. In Mirabel, we know how to live and to welcome people.

I heard that when they went to see you, they were told that you had agreed to hold a consultation panel in the parish hall in Sainte-Scholastique, which is where, historically, expropriated people have held their meetings. Do you accept this invitation to take questions in a panel format before the sugaring season? It's very important for us.

[Martin Imbleau]

It's a promise: We'll do it before the sugaring season. As for the parish or the municipal hall, I don't know.

That said, the reason we have opted for this format at this time is that it's the best in the world. We're there for hours and hours and hours. Whether you have two, eight, 200 or 400 questions, we're going to answer all your questions. If you have any comments or observations to share with us after you return home, you can come back to do so at the second meeting. You can even do it online. It's much better than a panel. A panel isn't the right way to do it.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I'll interrupt you to tell you that it's the best in the world, but only because you have never set foot in the parish hall in Sainte-Scholastique, I can assure you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[Martin Imbleau]

It will my pleasure to be there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Garon.

We're going to continue with Mr. Kelly for five minutes, please.