Finance Committee on June 11th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Good morning, everyone. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 47 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance.

I would like to remind participants of the following points.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

I would like to remind witnesses that committee members may ask questions in either English or French. If you will need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select the listening channel you need in advance in order to take full advantage of the time allotted for questions and answers.

I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 83.1, the committee resumes its pre-budget consultations in advance of the 2026 budget.

I would now like to take a moment to welcome our witnesses.

From the Assembly of First Nations, we have National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak. From News Media Canada, we have Paul Deegan, president and chief executive officer. From Riipen Networks Inc., we have Dana Stephenson, chief executive officer and co-founder. From Talking. Advocating. Living in Québec., we have Sylvia Martin-Laforge, director general, and Stephen Thompson, senior policy adviser.

You will each have five minutes for your opening remarks.

Chief Woodhouse Nepinak, we will begin with you.

[National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak, Assembly of First Nations]

Chi-meegwetch.

[Witness spoke in Ojibwa]

[English]

Good morning. My name is Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak. I'm national chief with the Assembly of First Nations.

I want to acknowledge that we are on the traditional territory of the Algonquin people.

Thank you to the chair and all committee members for your public service and for the invitation to appear today regarding the 2026 budget.

The Assembly of First Nations submitted a full brief to the committee with budget recommendations that respond to policy resolutions approved by chiefs from coast to coast to coast at our regular chiefs' assemblies. These reflect the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action, and the calls for justice from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls.

More than words, the 2026 budget will be an important opportunity to honour the Crown through deeds, because budgets are not just accounting exercises. They are instruments for governments to deliver on their obligation to the rights of all citizens.

While we have made some progress together over the past decade, discriminatory gaps continue to prevent first nations and Canada from meeting our full potential. The primary focus of our budget submission is to close these gaps so that future generations can thrive in ways that we never thought possible.

We have spoken to Parliament in the past about the social and economic benefits of closing Canada's $360-billion first nations infrastructure gap. With the Conference Board of Canada, the AFN described how these generational investments will create hundreds of thousands of jobs and return $1.82 for every dollar that's invested. The Prime Minister acknowledged that closing this gap will more than offset Trump's tariffs.

Last week, a new report from Deloitte highlighted sovereign first nation economic partnerships as Canada's most under-leveraged growth opportunity. The report said that closing these gaps in rural and remote first nations could double the scale of Canada's first nations economies.

Six years ago, Canada committed to closing the gap by 2030. Sadly, the lack of any nation-building investments has made this gap wider and more costly. Safe drinking water is one example. Today, despite promises from Canada, 38 active long-term drinking advisories remain on public systems on reserves in 36 first nation communities across the country. As we await new water legislation in Parliament next week, we invite the committee to support our water infrastructure recommendations so that future generations of first nations children don't live in fear of their local water supply.

When we talk about the first nations infrastructure gap, we also refer to basics like community health and safety. For example, policing is an essential service in all Canadian jurisdictions—towns, cities and communities in between—except first nations. For us, it is considered just another government program, and that's not acceptable, my friends.

Discriminatory health gaps are also well documented through many reports. Our submission includes recommendations for new treatment capacity to offer some hope for first nations seeking assistance with substance abuse, mental health challenges and addiction. Too often this includes many first nations men and boys facing systemic barriers to accessing health supports. That is why a common theme of our plan is to mandate distinctions-based program design, because when Canada transfers funding to the provinces for housing, health, education, justice and social services, it does not trickle down to first nations.

The last budget increased provincial transfers for health, education and social services by 5%, while many first nations programs and services were cut or expired. Instead of closing the gaps, last year's federal budget made things more difficult. This is one reason we understand that the budget is not the only path to prosperity, so we call on Canada to work with first nations on a benefit-sharing framework to guarantee participation and revenue with infrastructure and natural resource development. We also invite Canada to engage with first nations on the proposed Canada strong sovereign wealth fund before project investments are made. We need our voices to be included in the decision-making under this new initiative, and first nations must have a clear path to economic benefits through any funded project.

We look forward to your questions. I will close on education and the systemic underfunding of first nations school infrastructure.

With the end of the school year approaching for all of our kids and our grandkids, the Assembly of First Nations will release a report this month confirming that almost half of the 500 first nations schools in our country are overcrowded and need additions. Approximately one in every nine requires immediate replacement. I believe we need 77 schools.

The schools being replaced don't guarantee air conditioning. There is a community right now, Lake Manitoba First Nation Chief Cornell McLean's community, that only has half days because the air is sweltering in the school. That's unacceptable. It's 2026. All of our kids need access to good facilities. Are these schools in Toronto, Montreal, metro Vancouver or anywhere else from coast to coast being built without air conditioning? As we sit here in this beautiful place, there are kids out there who don't have that.

In 2026, this circumstance should no longer be acceptable, because first nations are one of the youngest demographics across our country. Key sectors within Canada's digital economy face demand for thousands of additional tech jobs, including in clean energy, information technology, cybersecurity and digital media.

This is why we recommend a first nations-led vision for adult learning and for upskilling youth in high-demand roles for Canada's innovation economy. As Canada invests in skills training and certification through team Canada strong, first nations must be part of these national priorities. Unfortunately, as it stands now, first nations have not been guaranteed any dedicated benefit from this $6-billion investment.

These lifelong education investments are particularly important because Canada's education system was used as a tool to try to break our spirit and erase our culture and language. In the future, with your support, budget 2026 will ensure that education is a tool to empower first nations, uplift our children and ensure that Canada's economy meets its full potential.

Chi-meegwetch. Thank you so very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Chief Woodhouse Nepinak.

We'll continue now with Mr. Deegan for five minutes, please.

[Paul Deegan, President and Chief Executive Officer, News Media Canada]

Thank you very much.

It's a great pleasure to be with you. It's a particular pleasure to be seated next to the national chief.

News Media Canada represents about 550 news titles across Canada, from independent weekly community newspapers to large urban and national dailies. Allow me to begin by providing a high-level overview of the state of the Canadian news media publishing business.

On the negative side, the advertising market in Canada has continued to remain very challenging. Simply put, too many ad dollars are being scooped up by Google and Meta thanks to their duopoly over online advertising and Google's monopolies throughout the supply chain.

We also continue to see the brazen theft of our intellectual property on an industrial scale by AI companies. These companies aren't just providing snippets; they're providing very detailed summaries and passing them off as their own creation. They're depriving news publishers of audience, subscriptions and advertising, and are thus capturing the value that journalism depends on for its survival.

Big tech is extending its dominance over news distribution and monetization—first established over search, digital ads, social media and app stores—into the new world of generative AI. To defend the free press, Canada must act.

On the positive side, while the economics of the business are far from great, we're seeing a level of relative stability in newsrooms after years of job cuts. Federal policies and supports are working as intended. The Canadian journalism labour tax credit is rewarding news businesses that maintain and grow their newsrooms. The Online News Act is seeing $100 million flowing annually to news businesses, large and small, in lieu of content licensing agreements. Aid to publishers, special measures for journalism and the local journalism initiative are all important and are making a meaningful difference to many publishers.

What are we asking you to do? First, ensure that the Canadian journalism labour tax credit is maintained at 35%. Currently, it is scheduled to revert to 25% on January 1, 2027. The credit is highly efficient in that it rewards those who maintain and grow newsroom employment.

Let me be clear that recommending to maintain it at 35% is the most important thing you can do to maintain newsroom jobs across Canada. On a related note, the qualification criteria for the credit currently excludes many smaller family-owned publishers. That can be remedied by changing the eligibility requirement for two newsroom employees to allow the owner-operator and family members working in the newsroom to count towards eligibility.

Second, renew the local journalism initiative.

Recognizing that we live in challenging fiscal times, let me give you four ideas that won't cost the federal purse one dime.

First, follow Ontario's lead and set aside 25% of the federal news spend for news media. The Ontario policy is making a meaningful difference to many publishers, large and small. It's a policy that the federal government should adopt.

Second, close the loophole in the Income Tax Act that is providing a $2.2-billion taxpayer-funded subsidy for digital advertising on foreign big-tech platforms.

Third, the government should declare unequivocally that there will be no exception made to the Copyright Act with regard to text and data mining. We cannot allow foreign AI giants to go on strip-mining Canadian news.

News media are aligned with creative industries. AI companies must seek our consent, provide credit and compensation, and be transparent about their use of our works. By respecting these principles, news media can help to build a trustworthy, reliable and sovereign AI sector in Canada, one that grows with us, not at our expense.

Finally, the government should stop doing business with AI companies that steal from news publishers and other creators. This can be accomplished through supplier agreements in the federal government's procurement policy.

Before I conclude my opening remarks, let me leave you with this recent statement from A.G. Sulzberger, chairman and publisher of The New York Times:

...I fear we are careening toward a future with fewer and fewer journalists to do the expensive, difficult work of original reporting—going to places, talking to people, digging up information, covering important issues and events, providing context and analysis, investigating the powerful. A future where a crucial wellspring of a healthy society and a stable democracy—the truth, understanding and accountability provided by original journalism—continues to dry up.

The members of this committee and the Minister of Finance can help ensure that this doesn't happen.

Thank you very much. I look forward to our discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Deegan.

We'll continue now with Mr. Stephenson for five minutes.

[Dana Stephenson, Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder, Riipen Networks Inc.]

Thank you, Chair and members of the committee, for the invitation to appear today as part of your pre-budget consultations for budget 2026.

Good morning. I'm very pleased to be here today to discuss budget 2026 with the committee.

My name is Dana Stephenson. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Riipen, a Canadian company founded in Vancouver that now operates globally. Riipen connects businesses with Canadian learners and emerging talent to complete real projects that build skills, create experience and address practical productivity challenges.

Since 2017, we have facilitated more than 361 learner experiences, worked with almost 50,000 employers and engaged over 900 post-secondary institutions and training organizations. Since 2021, Riipen's programs, including Level UP and FuturePath—which are supported through the federal government's innovative work-integrated learning investments—have helped turn this infrastructure into almost 45,000 paid work placements.

The businesses we work with are overwhelmingly small or micro-businesses, the backbone of Canada's economy. They want to modernize and adopt new technologies but often lack the talent, tools and implementation support to do it. That matters, because Canada is facing three challenges that are too often discussed separately. First, Canada has a serious productivity challenge. Second, many small and medium-sized businesses know they need to adopt AI and digital tools but lack the time, capacity or resources to move from interest to implementation. Third, too many Canadians are struggling to get the experience they need to launch or advance their careers.

Our experience suggests that these are not separate challenges. They are one connected economic problem. The missing piece is the implementation layer that connects talent to the businesses that need capacity, digital skills and practical support.

Canadian learners are eager to contribute. They include students, recent graduates and adults building new skills, but too often they face the familiar barrier of needing experience to get a job and needing a job to get experience. Work-integrated learning works best when it is designed as a pathway that creates value for both learners and employers. Learners need repeated and real work experiences that build capability over time. Employers need low-friction ways to engage talent first, and then deepen participation as business value and hiring potential grow.

When structured properly, emerging talent can help small businesses complete projects that otherwise would not happen, from market research and administrative automation to AI-enabled workflows. When structured properly, work-integrated learning becomes productivity infrastructure for the AI economy. It gives businesses practical capacity while giving Canadians the experience and proof they need to move forward.

Our program data shows that 85% of participating employers report increased productivity, and 76% of participants report receiving one or more job offers after completing their experience. That is the pathway we are asking the federal government to build through budget 2026.

Specifically, we recommend a five-year national applied AI and SME productivity work-integrated learning pathway. The objective is simple: help SMEs adopt practical AI and digital tools while creating paid, work-integrated learning opportunities for Canadian learners and emerging talent.

Canada does not need to build a new system from scratch. The opportunity is to create a strategic applied AI and SME productivity stream through proven federal infrastructure that already exists within programs like I-WIL and the student work placement program. This pathway would help employers define real AI and digital adoption projects, connect with emerging Canadian talent, and measure the business, learner and employment outcomes that matter most. Over time, it could support greater employer and partner co-investment, helping public dollars go further while maintaining access for learners and small businesses.

Canada has invested in physical infrastructure, research infrastructure and industrial capacity. Budget 2026 should also invest in the human infrastructure that helps ordinary businesses put technology to work for their day-to-day operations.

Canadians need opportunities to apply future skills in real business settings, build confidence, build networks and contribute to business productivity. By helping small businesses become more productive and Canadian learners gain meaningful experience, budget 2026 could strengthen competitiveness, build homegrown talent and generate stronger long-term economic growth. Work-integrated learning infrastructure should be central to Canada's AI and productivity agenda.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear today. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Stephenson.

We're continuing now with Madame Martin-Laforge for five minutes.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge, Director General, TALQ]

Madam Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of TALQ. I'm Sylvia Martin-Laforge, the director general. With me today is our senior policy adviser, Stephen Thompson.

TALQ is a public policy and advocacy organization representing Canada's English linguistic minority community: the English-speaking community of Quebec. Our work focuses on research, policy analysis and sustained engagement with governments so that public policy reflects the needs, realities and vitality of our community.

Our message today is straightforward and was developed in discussion with key community organizers: the Quebec English School Boards Association, the Provincial Employment Roundtable, Youth4Youth, the Community Health and Social Services Network and CEDEC, all of which have submitted briefs for this consultation.

Budget 2026 will be a test of whether the federal government's modernized official languages commitments are going to be implemented in a concrete and measurable way.

Parliament has strengthened part VII of the Official Languages Act. Federal institutions now have clearer objectives to take positive measures to enhance the vitality of official language minority communities, but those obligations will not implement themselves. They require funding, program design, accountability and delivery mechanisms that actually reach the communities they are meant to support.

For our communities, this is especially important. We operate within a distinct provincial linguistic framework. Federal support is often mediated through intergovernmental agreements, provincial delivery structures or program rules that do not always reflect the realities of English-speaking Quebec.

TALQ's written submission makes six recommendations.

First, the Government of Canada should commit now to the renewal and expansion of the action plan for official languages beyond 2028, with increased and indexed funding aligned with section 41 of the Official Languages Act. The action plan remains the main federal instrument through which many official language commitments are translated into community-facing programs. Retrenchment in this area would have direct consequences for community development, education, health and social services, and other sectors central to vitality.

Second, the Government of Canada should establish dedicated and protected funding envelopes for the English-speaking community of Quebec within relevant federal programs. Without protected envelopes, the needs of our community can be obscured into broader program categories or diluted through delivery mechanisms that do not provide clear accountability.

Third, federal-provincial agreements involving official language funding must include binding provisions on transparency, accountability and measurable outcomes. Federal transfers to Quebec intended to benefit English-speaking Quebec remain difficult to trace.

Fourth, the proposed part VII regulation should be implemented in a way that connects investments to known outcomes. TALQ has recognized the importance of requirements for analysis, consultation and documentation, but procedure alone is not enough. There is a real risk of compliance without impact. Budget decisions should reinforce part VII by requiring federal institutions to explain what positive measures were adopted, what outcomes are expected and why measures proposed by communities were not pursued.

Fifth, the federal government should create a targeted investment stream to strengthen and connect policy, research and advocacy capability within the English-speaking community of Quebec. The modernized act assumes that communities can participate meaningfully in consultations, respond to complex federal initiatives, analyze data, engage with institutions and help shape public policy.

Sixth, federal program design must take into account structural barriers in Quebec, including provincial authorization requirements and other impediments that can affect whether community organizations are able to access or implement federal support. Federal institutions should not assume that a program designed for national delivery will work in Quebec without adaptation. In some cases, federal objectives can be delayed, weakened or redirected through the very mechanisms used to deliver them.

The broader point is this: Parliament has created a stronger statutory framework around its official languages through the modernization of the Official Languages Act, and budget 2026 must align spending with that framework. For TALQ, the central question is whether federal official language investments will be made in ways that produce measurable, durable outcomes for the communities they are intended to serve.

We therefore ask this committee to recommend that budget 2026 protect and expand official languages investments, strengthen accountability in the federal-provincial agreements, ensure dedicated support for English-speaking Quebec and fund the community capacity needed to make part VII meaningful in practice.

Thank you. We're pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

That's great. Thank you very much.

We're going to start with Mr. Lefebvre for six minutes.

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning to all my colleagues, and thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.

I will follow the order in which the witnesses were introduced and begin with the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations.

National Chief, you talked about the need for $360 billion in infrastructure. What particularly matters to me is access to safe drinking water. How many communities currently lack access to safe drinking water?

[Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak]

Absolutely. Thank you for that question.

We have 36. I know there were over 100 a few years back, but we still have 36, and we've made some progress. We need to continue to make progress, and we need to continue to close those gaps sooner rather than later.

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

You're telling us that we've gone from 100 communities to 36.

How many years did it take to reduce the number of communities affected?

[Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak]

It took us about a decade to get it down to 36, but we have to push a bit more and make sure that we close those gaps this year. Those communities are waiting.

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

You're telling us that the government hasn't kept its promises.

Can you tell us about the promises and commitments the government has made but not kept?

[Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak]

Absolutely. Canada had committed to closing the first nations infrastructure gap by 2030. As it stands right now, it's widening a bit. I am asking Canada to work with us to make sure that we're on a path to closing those gaps by the year 2030.

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

You also said that the funds aren't reaching first nations.

How can you say that the funds aren't reaching first nations, and why aren't they reaching them?

[Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak]

This is particularly for first nations, but I think there may be other groups. Every other Canadian benefits when there are provincial transfers, but because we're in first nations communities, the provinces and the feds like to football us back and forth and say, “That's your jurisdiction. That's yours.”

At the same time as all these federal transfers come to the provinces when it comes to health care, education and all the investments the federal government makes in this country, they never come to first nations communities. We never get new roads from provinces, we never get new hospitals from provinces and we never get new schools from provinces.

It's a bigger discussion than that, but certainly one part of it is that we have a relationship with this country, and we have to change the way we work together. We're not a lower-level government; we're foundational partners in this country.

I know they are uncomfortable conversations we have with the provinces, but they do take up all our numbers on-reserve and off-reserve and claim they're going to work for us on health, for instance, or education. None of those investments ever come to first nations communities. We always end up having to go strictly to Indian Affairs, and that system—

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you very much, National Chief.

I still have a few questions, and I only have two minutes left.

Mr. Deegan, you mentioned artificial intelligence appropriating copyrighted content. I think you can see that we can't avoid this, that it's going to become more and more widespread and that we need to work together.

How can we ensure that we protect content and copyright in relation to artificial intelligence?

[Paul Deegan]

I think the government could argue that there are no exceptions to the Copyright Act when it comes to text and data mining. That's important.

In addition, the Competition Bureau could look into the possibility of splitting Google's web crawlers into two separate systems: one for artificial intelligence and the other for searching.

[Éric Lefebvre, Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Stephenson, you talked about various challenges. The first was productivity. I agree with you: Canada is more than a decade behind when it comes to productivity. This is a major issue.

You talked about the implementation of artificial intelligence. This issue is very close to my heart. I always say there's a positive side and a negative side to AI. We're going to try to focus on the positive side and see how we can integrate it, with the establishment of a national pathway.

I'd like you to tell me a bit about that journey.

[Dana Stephenson]

The pathway is to create opportunities, with employer incentives, to encourage employers to launch projects where they get to work with emerging talent coming out of the post-secondary system or with workers who are re-skilling and upskilling to work on scoped projects that will help businesses adopt AI—specifically small, medium and micro-businesses—so they can become more productive, make Canada more competitive and create more jobs. When small businesses adopt AI, they actually create more jobs rather than cut them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Lefebvre.

Mr. Lavoie, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us. Your presence here this morning is very important.

Mr. Stephenson, I really admire the work you do. You’re in Vancouver.

I’d like to pick up on some of what you said. You mentioned time, capacity, and resources for small and medium-sized businesses. Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières professor of economics Frédéric Laurin was here with us on June 2, and he said essentially the same thing. I reminded Mr. Laurin that I used to work at the Chamber of Commerce in Quebec City, which conducted a survey and identified the same factors he did. What you said this morning shows us that there is continuity. What stood out for us was time, money, and knowledge. Success required all three at the same time.

We talked a lot about implementation because, as you said, that’s the missing piece when it comes to making things happen. I’d like you to tell me about implementation. This seems to be a problem whether in Vancouver, Trois-Rivières or Quebec City. Even when there are programs and funding, implementation remains a challenge. Tell me about your vision for implementation.

[Dana Stephenson]

The innovative work-integrated learning program was created as part of the student work placement program back in budget 2019. The student work placement program is an employer incentive to encourage more employers to hire students for traditional internships and co-op opportunities.

We found that while those programs are incredibly valuable, many of the smallest businesses and micro-businesses found that they had too much paperwork. There was too much paperwork and too much friction. The infrastructure wasn't there. They couldn't get access to the right talent.

We proposed a model that would create more flexible opportunities. Rather than hiring learners or emerging talent for a full-time position, you would make it more flexible. These could be scoped into 10-hour, 20-hour, 40-hour, 60-hour, 120-hour or 240-hour projects that have a specific goal in mind. In this case, the proposal for this stream would be digital adoption and AI adoption.

What's really important, when you come to the small and micro-businesses, is that they need infrastructure. They need to be able to connect to the right talent and trust that the talent has the right skills based on their portfolio of previous work that's been vetted by previous employers. They need payments to be facilitated through this infrastructure.

We act as an intermediary, as the employer of record, with an independent contractor relationship with every learner. The learners technically work with us. We T4A them. We report to CRA. We remove all of that friction and all of that red tape for the small businesses. Now they can participate in a very frictionless way and get all of these projects done without having to deal with paperwork.

That implementation layer—which helps them scope the projects, helps manage the learners through the projects, helps with reflection and feedback, and helps create a project portfolio of real evidence for the learner to show off to other employers—helps the businesses become more productive and create new jobs. It also makes sure the learners have a portfolio that can help them with their future careers.

[Steeve Lavoie, Liberal, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

What you’re doing with micro-businesses is really interesting. As I was listening to you, I was wondering if we could replicate this elsewhere, since we're seeing the same phenomenon elsewhere in Canada.

You work with micro-businesses. Do you have plans to start working with medium-sized businesses? How many employees would you say a micro-business has? What's the next level? I know you’ve already received multi-year funding from the Government of Canada. Do you think additional funding would allow you to take things a step further and even expand this approach to other provinces?