Fisheries Committee on March 31st, 2009

[Danny Arsenault]

First of all, I'm a member of a co-op. I think those questions are probably more suited for our management, because we trust them to be working on those kinds of things for us, to get the best. Whether there's more out there I don't really know, but I'm sure there is. It seems to me there are always new products and new ways of doing it coming up. The more work that's done on it, probably the better for the industry, yes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Okay. My last question for you, before I pass it on, is this. You've been fishing area 25 for the last, what, 34 or 35 years? Is that correct?

[Danny Arsenault]

Yes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

You've seen your catches go down on a per unit effort basis since the 1980s. Anecdotally, can you tell this committee what you've seen of other changes in the environment? Have you seen an increase in seals? Do we see an increase in other types of things? What are the environmental factors? I don't expect you to give me a scientific answer, but anecdotally, what have you seen out on the water that would give this committee some information that reminds them why there's a decrease there? We've heard about the environmental factors, the bridge, and so on. What other things could there be? Could seals be a factor?

[Danny Arsenault]

Seals are probably one of the biggest factors, yes. We have seen that in the groundfishery. That's almost totally wiped out, and we believe it's the seals. We stopped fishing in 1992 for groundfish, and it's pretty much been a moratorium since. Today, the spawning biomass is about 90% less than it was in 1992, and the only answer they can give us is the seals. So it has definitely taken that down.

As far as the seals go, I don't know how much of a problem they are for our lobsters. We do know they're taking the bait bags out of our traps. Whether they're eating the small lobsters or the soft lobsters...I'm sure they are. They are a serious problem.

On other things, we've seen with herring stocks that everything is depleted. Those were probably helping to feed lobsters. When herring are spawning, there's feed. It's all part of the system, I guess.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Good. Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I'm interested particularly in one thing you were talking about, just so we are clear. Yesterday we heard there was interest in the length—the sizing—increasing in the Magdalens, but no interest in notching. Did I understand that you consider that problematic? Is the size continuing to go up a problem for you, or is there support for the sizing?

[Danny Arsenault]

To answer that truthfully, everywhere else where there was an increase has probably seen catches rising. We didn't, because as I spoke about earlier, when this all started is when all the gear started being bought and brought into the area. I guess the fishermen in our area still aren't sure whether the size increase is doing them any good or not. Because of those problems, we didn't really see the value of it. We're down lower than we ever were.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

So you've never actually been able to see results to know whether it's a factor.

[Danny Arsenault]

No. Each year, for the first few years, we kept declining in our catches, but the size increases were going up.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you. That's all I had.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

I want to follow up with Mr. Jenkins.

I'm not sure I understood your suggestion about price stabilization. I assume the lobsters are going to come out of the water unless the fishermen stay home. You're not suggesting that they just quit fishing if there's a downturn in the demand for lobster, let's say, which we were seeing last year and this year, at least with the high-end lobster. Are you suggesting, then, that if fishermen continue to fish them, sell them for whatever they can get, and the Government of Canada subsidizes the price of the lobster, they can continue to survive?

I'm not sure I understood the solution you were proposing.

[Jim Jenkins]

. No, I'm not suggesting that the Government of Canada subsidize the shore price or anything like that. I think some people would say it would be nice to get the extra money, but in actual fact we would be artificially propping up the industry, which I don't think in the long run would have a positive benefit.

What I am saying is that the processors are finding it more and more difficult to access ready cash from either banking or lending institutions. I was suggesting that interest relief and some access relief to funding be given in order for the plants to be able to continue buying on a regular basis. If they don't have a cashflow coming into the plant, then they can only operate so long before all the workings come to a stop.

I was thinking about two things. One was some inventory support so they could get rid of their inventory in an orderly manner, and secondly, a banking type of operation that might last for two to three years so they would be able to continue purchasing along the shore.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

I see those points, and I think they're interesting suggestions, but it doesn't address the selling side.

[Jim Jenkins]

No.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

They still have to sell this to somebody.

[Jim Jenkins]

They certainly do have to sell it. I think the processors would be working with various organizations, whether it's the Food Technology Centre or with CCFI or other groups, to either produce new products or maybe have a more aggressive marketing approach and go into new markets as well.

I think the problem is what our colleague from the Magdalen Islands alluded to earlier: no one solution fits everything. I believe there will be a number of things tried, and hopefully some will be successful, to allow us to come out of this downturn.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

You say we have way too many licence holders. How did we get more than we can handle? Was it because the stock was so good we just kept adding fishers?

[Danny Arsenault]

Back when it started, you could get into fishing and there was no cost. For 25¢ you got a licence and you went fishing. That's where the gears came from today. There were just too many.

A lot of people get out over the years, but--

[Jim Jenkins]

There's a bit more than that too. I'm interested in the history of the fishery, and one of the things in the fishery was that the man who owned the boat and the son or second man in the boat both had the same licence. There was no such thing, at that time, as a helper's licence before, say, the late sixties or early seventies.

If Danny and I were fishing together—and I'm, by the way, better looking than he is—he would have a licence, I would have a licence. It's the same licence. So when we divided it up, when they came in with limited licences, we just jumped into two extra boats. And what happened, as anecdotal information, is that when we brought in the trap limits and we had all these extra licences, we actually had more traps in the water after we brought in trap limits than before we brought them in.

I guess we learn by doing, and I think that what we've been doing since the late sixties is paring them down and reducing the amount of effort.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, gentlemen. Thank you for taking the time today to meet with our committee and for providing us with some advice and some insight into the industry here in your area.

There is one thing I want to mention before we adjourn today's proceedings. If there is anyone who would like to add additional information, you have the ability to do so in writing and submitting it to the clerk of this committee. You can add any further points that you might feel have been left out here today, anything at all. Transcripts of today's hearings will be made available via the Internet within a two-week period. You can review those transcripts and provide additional advice, if you feel like it, after that point.

Before I adjourn, I want to say thank you very much to the entire area for your hospitality today.

My colleague Mr. MacAulay would like to close with a few words.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'd just like to thank everybody for coming. I'm wearing a sealskin hat and I have no trouble promoting it.

I thank my colleagues for coming. It was an informative situation. It's a big issue to host the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, and I'd like to give a hand to Charlie Fraser, who provided all the facilities that were needed.

Thank you very much, Charlie.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!