Fisheries Committee on March 31st, 2009

[Danny Arsenault]

Since 1974.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Do you fish any other species?

[Danny Arsenault]

We used to fish groundfish a lot, but that's nearly non-existent now, so it's mostly lobster.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Could you further explain the situation in your fishing zone? How many fishermen are in your zone? What kind of fishing data has been collected in recent years? Has there been an increase, decrease, or is it stable?

[Danny Arsenault]

There are 252 fishermen in area 25. The catches, I would say, are probably down to half from what they used to be in the north zone, and they are probably reduced by two-thirds or more in the south from what the catches were in the late eighties.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Very often, we look for solutions and try to make recommendations that can be enforced coast-to-coast, across the country. Yet, I believe, as do my colleagues, that we cannot proceed in this way. One solution may work in a certain area, but not necessarily in another. There can be variations, particularly as regards the licence buy-backs. Solutions may vary geographically, according to the fishing sector that we are dealing with. Do you agree with this way of working?

[Danny Arsenault]

Yes.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

You talked about your own difficulties and the fact that even the slightest bit of support could help you. How are you able to deal with the current situation?

[Danny Arsenault]

Good question. I don't know. We just keep working at it, hoping, I guess, for some help to straighten things out. As I say, we've been working through them for a number of years and not much has changed.

I said 252 fishermen in P.E.I. There are also 604 in New Brunswick sharing the same zone with us. Basically, it's the same problem on both sides. When the problems really got bad in the strait, it happened on both sides, and all of the licences moved to the north, and now there's a struggle in both areas.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

There can be many short, medium and long-term measures. But in your case, what types of measures should be put into effect immediately?

[Danny Arsenault]

What I said earlier is an immediate buyout of licences to reduce the effort. As I said, we've probably doubled or tripled the effort in the area in the last little while, and I don't think any small measures can fix it. The only way we see it is the reduction of at least a third of the fleet to make it viable for those who stay.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you.

I'm done, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

With all this excitement of talking about buyouts, I was thinking of introducing a private member's bill and maybe buying out a few of my Conservative and Liberal colleagues. I just jest when I say that. When I hear Mr. MacAulay talk about retirement, I wonder if he is talking about himself or something else.

Thank you once again, gentlemen. There is a fundamental problem. I think in the Magdalens here...we're going to hear it in Nova Scotia, we're going to hear it in New Brunswick. DFO has talked about it, industry has talked about it, our committee has talked about it, and the Senate committee has talked about it. Everyone is in agreement that you have to reduce the effort. How it happens obviously is a discussion, but the reality is that you can reduce the effort and protect the resource, but if no one is buying it, it's still a problem for those who are behind. You have 250 fishermen, and if you go down to 175 fishermen, for argument's sake, if no one is buying the lobster you have the same fundamental problem of the market conditions.

I guess my question for you is this. As a fisherman who has been working for 35 years now and fishing lobsters, what advice would you give us to give to the government on any unique ways of marketing lobsters other than what has already been proposed by various government officials and by the companies? What would you like to see done in terms of marketing that lobster so that we could tell the world and Canadians that this is a healthy, wonderful Canadian product that should be enjoyed by everybody--without a seafood allergy, of course? What would you do?

[Danny Arsenault]

I don't know. I guess that's why I'm a fisherman. Maybe I'll let Jim tackle that one.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Fair enough. Very good answer, by the way.

[Jim Jenkins]

Those fishermen are smart.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Yes, they are.

[Jim Jenkins]

Well, you raise an excellent question: what do you do if you have a wharf full of lobsters and nowhere to get rid of them? It is a fundamental question, and one that very well may be faced by the fishermen this spring.

I would suggest there are two things that you in government could really have a positive influence on. One is the effort that's going on by CCFI and by the provincial governments and what not--in other words, to market an Atlantic Canada lobster, promote it, try to find new markets, new products, these sorts of things. These take time and they take effort and money and investment, but that is one part you should be looking at.

I think another thing the government should be looking at, whether it's working with their provincial colleagues or whatever vehicle they wish to use, is securing some interim funding for the processors in order for them to be able to purchase lobsters. We heard earlier that they have a supply. I don't know the quantity of inventory in hand. They were bought at higher prices, $4 or $5 a pound. Therefore they're very expensive inventory for our processors to handle.

We heard of the collapse of the Icelandic and other banking systems. Banks have become extremely sensitive to the processing sector in lending money. We can see that processors today are tightening up their lines of credit with their clients, with their fishermen and what not. It's not as easy for them to lend money for new motors or new gear and various other activities as it was a few years ago.

So I think that between the provincial and federal governments there should be an effort to have some type of financial assistance, whether it's an interest buydown, which would be positive, or a loan of a certain percentage of their money for inventory, let's say, a 70% return of their inventory. They have to have some incentive to maintain the product and sell it, but at the same time, if they could just buy one week and not buy the second week, we're into the same sort of situation.

We look at our forefathers in the government. Many years ago we had the Fisheries Prices Support Board. Now, I know Lawrence has mentioned the World Trade Organization and about the various trade agreements that we have and the problems that ensue, but at the same time, the vision was there that during low times the Fisheries Prices Support Board could support the industry. If we could have something like that, so that our processors are not forced to dump product on the market at low prices and depress the market even further, I think it would be helpful to them.

I'm not trying to put myself forward as a marketing expert, because I'm going to tell you I certainly am not. If you want to talk to marketing experts, you go into that field and talk to the processors. Those people are the people who handle that side of things. But having looked at it this winter—I had an opportunity to do a bit of work on this—what I found was quite startling. If we do not have some mechanism to start the buying process off and to recover money relatively quickly, the fishermen are going to soon find that there's no place to sell a lobster—and you, Peter, have brought up a very poignant point—and it's going to immediately kill the industry if we can't get them off the wharves.

So my recommendation would be those two things: one is to help on inventory management and costs, and as well, to look at some banking and maybe interest buydown, those types of things, to assist the industry in keeping it churning and turning over.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Jenkins.

Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. It certainly is nice to get an opportunity to ask a few questions again.

Mr. Arsenault, I know you've already said it, but I want to be sure, because I think it was Mr. Morrissey earlier who said that a while ago, when DFO made some changes, the fishermen were fighting against it tooth and nail, and now after they've seen the results of them, they'll be fighting like tooth and nail to keep them. Are you sure that in this 10-point plan you don't like all the aspects of it? How sure are you?

[Danny Arsenault]

I wouldn't say all of it, probably, but I guess if we were in a better position to absorb it, we would be looking at it differently.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Okay.

Now, you said in your testimony that you think about one-third of licences. What do you see that doing? I'm assuming where you're coming from is that that's fewer traps and less competition you have out on the water, which means you're going to bring in a greater percentage of the catch. The idea is that the percentage of catch over the two weeks will be the same, but it's just divided up again among fewer fishermen. The margins stay the same, but you're going to be making your money more on volume. Is that correct?

[Danny Arsenault]

Mostly, but we don't believe that if you took five fishermen out of the system the remaining group.... You're not going to catch every lobster they were catching. You're going to catch a percentage of them, but you won't catch them all, so there's going to be more staying in the water. It's better for the people who are staying, but you still wouldn't get 100% of everybody's catch. Some of that catch would stay to reproduce.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

All right.

I'll get back to this in a second--I'll pass the time on to my friends here--but I'm just curious. From a research perspective, whether it's on packaging, on innovation in processing, or on research and investment into market access, is enough being done? In your opinion, have we looked at all of the ways? As the primary person who goes out there, you're out there on the front line. You're the price-taker. How satisfied are you with the amount of research and investment that goes into these other things?

I know they're not part of your daily business, because you're involved in the business of catching the lobster. If we found a better way for packaging, to add value that way, better ways for storing for the long term and for freshness, or whatever the case might be.... What do you think could or should be done? Is enough being done on that? Are we at the edge of technology and science at this point in time when it comes to dealing with these particular aspects of the industry, or could more be done?