Fisheries Committee on March 12th, 2020

[Dr. Kent Smedbol]

The herring that are targeted south of the border in U.S. waters are separate stocks, and there's very little exchange of individuals between those populations. Among U.S. stocks and among U.S. stocks and Canadian stocks, there's limited exchange of individuals. There is one area, coastal New Brunswick, that does see a fair bit of movement of individuals across the border. In fact, that fishery targets—it's a very small fishery, a weir fishery—mainly migrant U.S. juveniles, but other than that, the stocks are managed separately, and there's very little exchange across the international boundary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We'll now go to Mr. Battiste for five minutes or less, please.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

You said that at some point that you people are going to have a meeting that gets some of the answers we're lacking here. We're all trying to get to recommendations for the species and trying not only to do what's best for the species of fish but also to look out for the best interests of the fishermen in our ridings.

I'm going to ask a few questions all at the same time, because I want them on the record and want to see what kinds of answers you can get, if you don't have them today.

Basically, how many species of fish are deemed critical or in decline in the east? How are we monitoring the question? What are the first indicators—do we hear it from the fishermen, or is the science the first indicator? Can you take us through the process whereby we're realizing that there's a problem and will find a solution to fix that problem?

The last one is, how much consultation are we doing with the fisheries industry and indigenous populations to figure out solutions to some of the problems we're facing here today?

[Adam Burns]

We collect and capture the stock status as to whether it's known or not known, and if it is known, what the status is.

All of that information is captured in what used to be called the fisheries checklist—and that's the name that's coming to my mind right now—which we make publicly available. It provides all of the data you're looking for as to how many stocks are in the healthy zone, the cautious zone, the critical zone or are of unknown status.

We can certainly provide to the committee the link to this information. It's all on the web.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Would you say that herring is unique in terms of the state of criticality and decline, or is this a kind of global thing that we're seeing in the east that is problematic for all species?

[Adam Burns]

Globally I think the status of herring is a lot better than it currently is in the northwest Atlantic.

As for answering your other question, about consultation, for all of our major fish stocks we have regular consultation with industry and indigenous groups in which we discuss the state of science and the performance of the fishery in the previous year and seek views on the best approach for management going forward. We have an active engagement process, and that information is always brought into the decision-making process around how a particular fishery should be managed.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Is there anything you could share around the best approaches being brought forward by the industry and indigenous groups that would give us some viable recommendations we can take back as recommendations from this study when we conclude it?

[Adam Burns]

Depending on the advisory committee, there are various levels of minutes, as distinct from records of decision, and in some cases that information is put directly into the decision document itself. In other cases, we have completed rebuilding plans, and industry and indigenous perspectives are laid out there as well.

There are thus a variety of places in which those are captured, and certainly some of that information can be pulled together for you.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

There are, then, plenty of answers out there for best approaches, but you can't share them right now because...?

[Adam Burns]

What I would say with respect to the herring stocks themselves is that we know, as Kent has pointed out, that the role of natural mortality and the reproductive state, the productivity of the stocks, the impacts of climate change—all of those factors—are having a significant impact on the recovery of these stocks.

There are no silver bullets. There are no easy answers. We work with the fishing industry to identify a harvest level that's appropriate for the stock, recognizing that fishing mortality is the primary lever at our disposal, but equally recognizing, as Mr. Fast pointed out, that herring continues to be a key source for bait in the lobster and crab fisheries. It continues to provide an economic benefit to coastal communities.

While one could look at the state of some herring stocks and say that the harvest should be set to zero, there are various other factors that need to be considered on a stock-by-stock basis. Such consideration is what we do, and it is what has led to the management decisions currently in place.

Certainly they are all informed by the best available science. As Kent pointed out, science always wants more data and more information, but a prioritization has to take place as well. No one has infinite resources, so DFO science distributes the resources at our disposal across stocks, trying to allocate them to the stocks in a manner that achieves as robust a suite of scientific information as possible by which to manage all the fisheries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Battiste.

We'll now go to Madame Gill for two and a half minutes, please.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I have a yes or no question.

Would you allow the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to appear before the committee to talk about the specific indicators required to further our knowledge of herring? We're not talking about time or space here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Madame Gill, I don't know if they would be the people to ask the minister come.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I wasn't talking about the minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I thought you meant for the minister to come.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I want to know whether department officials would be allowed to come and speak about the specific indicators for herring stocks. I wasn't referring to the minister.

If the herring quotas are supposedly not being met and the stock in area 16B has reached a critical level—which we saw earlier—how come the entire quota in area 16B was fished in less than two weeks last spring?

[Marc LeCouffe]

I don't have that information with me.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I have another question.

Do you have any information on how the use of the seine, non-selective fishing gear, is affecting the herring stocks?

[Marc LeCouffe]

There are lots of studies on purse seines.

[Adam Burns]

I don't know whether I fully understand your question.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I don't have the technical term in English, but it's a seine, s-e-i-n-e.

[Adam Burns]

I understand, and I'm familiar with this gear.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Do you have any data on how the use of non-selective fishing gear is affecting the herring stocks?

[Adam Burns]

You're asking about the impact on bycatch.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Yes, but I'm interested in the impact of fishing gear.