Fisheries Committee on Feb. 27th, 2024

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I'm sorry, but I have to stop you there, Mr. Burns.

There have not been discussions up to this point with those who are most impacted by this decision, and the minister has not yet meaningfully consulted with the harvesters about what the catch rate should be or what the amount of quota should be, and the government has just made a big announcement. The minister has made a big announcement, yet there has not been that level of consultation.

I would think that one of the first levels of consultation the minister should have undertaken was directly with the harvesters and those whose likelihoods depend upon the sector. There is something wrong with the fact that this is happening now or next week, and already announcements have been made.

We've got to get this back right to where the fishery and those whose livelihoods depend upon it are valued and prioritized when it comes to these big decisions. For far too long we've had study after study and report after report, but again, it seems like the voices of the harvesters and the coastal communities get ignored. I don't mean this towards you; it's frustration towards the whole system and towards the minister in not properly consulting with those most affected by the decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Bragdon.

Your time has gone over a little bit.

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If they want to argue how many times the minister was here, the Minister of Fisheries was here once already. She's only six months in.

The former minister of fisheries, Gail Shea, only came twice to this committee in two and a half years.

Let's get serious here and let's ask some questions.

Circling back to the redfish fishery, I'd say that some fishers were very hopeful, but some of that hope has turned into despair.

The redfish fishery is supposed to open on May 15, isn't it?

[Todd Williams]

Yes, that is correct. However, the fishing itself would probably not start until June 15 because of spawning closures.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

As you just said, we don't know if there are any markets for redfish. We have no idea how people are going to be able to sell this fish and at what price. We don't know what they will be able to do with redfish. We also don't know if the fishers are ready to fish it. The shrimpers aren't ready yet, for example. Their boats are not suited to that type of fishing.

Even if the fishing season opens on May 15, do you think that the shrimpers—I'm talking about them because the big companies won't have any problems, in my opinion—even the indigenous communities, will be able to break even and make money when the fishery opens?

[Adam Burns]

Market development was based on the expectation that the fish would get to a size where it could be processed. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

However, I can say that we will be holding consultations next week with people in the industry. We will discuss a number of topics, including the management measures that will be in place to allow fishers to exchange their quotas and have them apply to vessels that will fish this year. Even if some fishers don't go fishing themselves, they can make money by selling their quotas to other fishers, for example.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay.

Let's assume the quota stays the same, at 25,000 tonnes. For every shrimper, you're looking at about 60,000 or 70,000 tonnes.

Do you really think they're going to break even with 60,000 tonnes of redfish?

[Adam Burns]

We'll be holding consultations next week to clarify how the fleet quotas will be allocated.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

My main question is, do you know what it will take for the shrimpers and the licensed fishers to be able to break even and pay what they owe the bank? Do you have those numbers?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, I do. Mr. Vézina could give you more details on that.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I'm going to continue along the same lines. We're opening a fishery for this redfish, but they don't know if they will be able to sell it.

Have plant representatives contacted you to say they're ready to process this fish? Have you inquired about that? Are you going to talk to people in the processing industry to determine whether plants are ready to process that fish and sell it? Have they located any markets?

Have you done that work?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, we have. Unfortunately, the fish are not big enough to be adequately processed.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Why are we opening a redfish fishery then?

[Adam Burns]

The question was asked earlier. Yes, it is possible. Right now, the industry is trying to establish international markets for whole fish. Some of the biomass may be big enough to warrant processing the resource. However, the vast majority are not.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

According to the announcement, the Quebec fisheries fund will help shrimpers modernize their equipment.

Is that correct?

[Adam Burns]

Yes, that's right.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

In terms of an assistance plan, I looked at everything that was done in 1992 around the cod moratorium. Are you aware of what was done in those circumstances, namely, when the cod stocks collapsed?

Could we draw inspiration from such programs to help the fleets that are hit harder? I'm referring in particular to shrimpers or indigenous communities. There are also the other inshore fleets.

[Adam Burns]

I'm aware of previous programs. At the moment, our mandate doesn't cover that kind of program. However, we're working with the other departments to ensure that all the measures and programs offered by the government are in place and available to this fleet.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Burns, thank you for being with us today. I'll say it again, this is quite a complex study.

The leader of my party, Mr. Blanchet, my colleague Ms. Michaud and I consulted the fishers. For example, we met last week with people from La Fourchette bleue. The people in the fishing sector, particularly the shrimpers in Quebec and the mackerel fishers, don't feel that they are being taken into consideration. They don't feel heard.

In the House, I asked the minister, are we going to see fishery in Quebec slowly shutting down? I'm not talking about lobster, because the seals are eating it. So we don't know what's going to happen. In Quebec, the general opinion is that this can't go on. What we saw last week was a terribly discouraging outpouring of emotion.

In a perfect world, the fisheries and the fishers' know-how would be supported, succession and skills would be ensured, and a sustainable fishery would be preserved. As we know, factory ships have already diminished the biomass, and they will keep doing it.

Is the government open to supporting a sustainable fishery for owner-operators so that they can make a living, create jobs and ensure succession? Is that part of your plan for Quebec?

[Adam Burns]

Of course, that's part of it, yes.

When the Fisheries Act was modernized in 2019, specific regulations were established to manage threatened stocks. We also work closely—

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Some human beings are threatened too.

[Adam Burns]

I absolutely agree with that.

In addition, we're working with our scientific and resource management colleagues to develop ecosystem-based management policies that take broader considerations than a single species into account.

The objectives are to better manage the ecosystem, to better consider species interaction and climate change impacts, and to improve and better manage fish stocks during this period of ecosystem changes. This work is very important, and it better informs those who will be making fisheries management decisions in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes or less, please.