Evidence of meeting #16 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commercial.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
You said that, once, there was an intervention.
Commercial Fisherman, As an Individual
Yes. In this case, however, it was not someone with indigenous status.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Okay.
You were a fisheries officer. When you were a fisheries officer, what directives were you given regarding illegal fishermen?
Commercial Fisherman, As an Individual
We had to deal with fishermen who were fishing illegally, unless it was too complicated. Our supervisors often told us to do what they call “compliance analysis” in industry jargon, which meant going to see the fishermen at the dock, the commercial fishermen with licences, and checking the boxes for compliance with regulations. Was their logbook filled out? Were their licence conditions on board? Had they made their hail outs and hail ins? That's what we did instead of working on poaching cases, because they are more complicated and require more resources.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
When you were a fisheries officer, what directives were you given on poachers or smugglers with respect to their ethnic group or race?
Commercial Fisherman, As an Individual
It was clear that we weren't to touch indigenous people. That was the directive: We weren't to get involved with them, we didn't want any problems with them, we didn't want any new binding court rulings.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Even if it was an indigenous person not authorized by the band council who was fishing for food but who, for example, caught a female lobster, your directive was to do nothing and to let it go.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Were there times when you or other fisheries officers had to intervene nonetheless?
Commercial Fisherman, As an Individual
Not to my knowledge. I never saw any intervention, at any time, at least not while I was a fisheries officer.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Your immediate supervisors told you not to intervene in cases involving an unlicensed fisherman from a first nation, even if they were not authorized. Was that a strict guideline?
Bloc
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
What did the department do when one of your officers had a crisis of conscience with these directives?
Commercial Fisherman, As an Individual
I cannot really tell you about that, because it did not come up. I do not remember having any cases when I was a union rep, where a fisheries officer wanted to intervene. No, normally, we obeyed our supervisors.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Were you aware of any cases where a fisheries officer was made to sign a non-disclosure agreement?
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Okay.
When it comes to subsistence fishing, when you contact the band council—in your case, the Innu—to explain there are people fishing illegally, how co-operative are the Innu band council or the bands in question?
Commercial Fisherman, As an Individual
We have a very good working relationship, meaning that all the leaders I know from Innu organizations in my region are very co-operative. They are against poaching, whether it is being done by indigenous or non-indigenous people. They do not support it in any way.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
First nations and commercial fishermen would then like us to take action, but the department is telling its fisheries officers not to take action against poachers.
Commercial Fisherman, As an Individual
I cannot tell you this is what they are saying right now, but I have noticed that when a complaint is made about an indigenous poacher, nothing happens. In any case, in my area, I can tell you one thing: It has a ripple effect. One poacher starts doing it, makes some undeclared cash under the table, which is very attractive, and someone else decides to do the same thing since nothing bad happened. Why wouldn't they? It snowballs and there are more and more of them.
In my sector, I had the only commercial fishing licence in my zone. These are small zones. Suddenly, I estimated a number of cages equivalent to another licence, but it was illegal.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Deschênes. This concludes the first round of questions.
We'll now move to the second round.
Mr. Arnold, you have five minutes.
December 2nd, 2025 / 4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for their honesty and for appearing.
Mr. Vacher, in your training as a conservation officer or fisheries officer, was there an oath that you took to swear to protect the resource or anything like that?
Commercial Fisherman, As an Individual
Yes, absolutely. I swore an oath to the Queen—at the time, it was the Queen—to uphold my duty as a fisheries officer to protect the resource.