Evidence of meeting #24 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Thank you.
Ms. Rigg, Mr. Mavin spoke earlier about the fishing productivity of the northern bioregion in the proposed protected area. That's an AOI right now.
Canadian-caught and Canadian-produced fish and seafood contribute immensely to Canadian food security. Would you agree?
Director and Owner, Atlas Ocean Tours
I think fishing is an important part of the north Pacific economy, absolutely.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
We've had witnesses tell this committee that areas to be closed to fishing are so productive for fish harvesting that production will not be replaced outside these current and proposed protected areas. It will be impossible. Will this impact food security for Canadians?
Director and Owner, Atlas Ocean Tours
We heard the same thing in all these discussions around all the protected area initiatives that have happened. It's not surprising that fishermen are concerned about the precedent of having areas that they might lose access to. I think the most important thing is that fishermen are involved, as I mentioned previously, in the decision-making and the designing of marine protected areas, and that full efforts are made to mitigate impacts on all sectors, including fishing.
I think that food security in Canada is a much larger issue that is not going to be solved by allowing fishing everywhere or restricting certain conservation initiatives that are intended in the long term to benefit everyone.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm afraid that we're already out of time here. We have just four minutes for this round.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
No, I'm very much not, Mr. Small, but I am afraid we do need to move on.
Next we're going to go to Mr. Morrissey for four minutes.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
My first question is to Ms. Rigg.
Ms. Rigg, one thing that has been clear with the testimony given before this committee is that the process leaves a lot to be desired. Would you agree that there's been a lot of fearmongering around MPAs and the impact they would have on commercial fishers?
Director and Owner, Atlas Ocean Tours
I do agree that there has been a lot of fearmongering. I can't speak to the processes in the east, on the Atlantic coast and in the Arctic. In the north Pacific, the processes that I have been a part of and that I am aware of have been exceptionally comprehensive and have engaged fishermen from start to finish.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You made the comment that fishers were the most consulted group in a particular area. Could you expand on that a bit, because we keep hearing that fishers were not consulted?
Director and Owner, Atlas Ocean Tours
I was speaking about the Gwaii Haanas area. It's a national marine conservation area reserve. The fishing sector was exceptionally involved in that process in terms of the comprehensive marine zoning that was done and completed in 2018. Other sectors were involved as well, but not to the same extent. I will say that this area allows for fishing in over half of the national marine conservation area reserve. It's only in strict protection areas that commercial fishing is not allowed.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
There's a general theme given by those who are opposed to that that fishing is not allowed in MPAs. In this particular one, to be clear for the record, is fishing allowed?
Director and Owner, Atlas Ocean Tours
Fishing is allowed in over half of the area in multiple-use zones—commercial and recreational fishing. It's only in the strict protection zones that it isn't. The entire area would be considered a marine protected area and contribute towards the targets that are being discussed, even though bottom trawling, for example, is allowed, if I'm being quite honest, in certain areas, and continues. That would be calculated as part of the protection initiatives that are being discussed.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You referenced an MPA design that makes sense. Could you again expand on your definition of what would make sense? You made that reference earlier.
Director and Owner, Atlas Ocean Tours
It's about minimizing impacts, deciding what areas are important to protect, what the values are in those areas and minimizing impacts on users in those areas, including commercial and recreational fishermen. The design of an MPA can minimize impacts on sectors. I've heard other speakers talk about it as an attack on fisheries or a closure of fisheries. Yet the design work that we've been a part of and are familiar with has really worked to minimize impacts to below 10% to 8% of commercial fisheries.
I think you can do this work in a way that is scientifically driven, intentional and designed to try to meet the long-term sustainability of sectors across the board. Tourism isn't the answer on Haida Gwaii; it's one part of the question. We want to see fisheries there. We want to see a healthy forestry industry. We need to diversify our economies. Marine protected areas are not a threat to fisheries in the way that I've heard them presented by some people.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I had a question for Professor Archambault, but I believe I'm out of time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm afraid you are.
Mr. Beaulieu is the last speaker and has the floor for two minutes.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Rigg, you said there was a lot of consultation. In your opinion, did the consultation process sufficiently involve private fishers?
Director and Owner, Atlas Ocean Tours
Yes. There were extensive discussions with both fishing representatives and individual fishermen.
The fishing industry on the west coast, in the past, was made of small boats in coastal communities. Nowadays, it's much more quota-concentrated. A lot of that quota is owned by corporations. Even recreational fishing is owned by big businesses with deep pockets that have profited from fishing for a very long time. Finding those individual fishermen is harder these days. They have a lot to contribute because they've seen change over time.
I saw efforts to engage individual fishermen as well as sector representation in the processes I've been a part of.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
How do you explain the fact that the other witnesses seemed to be saying that they weren't consulted and that it wasn't working, whereas in your region, it works well, in your opinion?
Director and Owner, Atlas Ocean Tours
It is working well, and it can be done right.
I can't speak to their personal experience, but when solutions are created by a group and brought to a table, other people have a say in that too—first nations, marine transportation and tourism. All these other sectors contribute. The answer can't be dictated by one sector. It has to be a collaborative process. If individuals and groups are presenting as having not been consulted sufficiently, it could be because they're unhappy with the end design and think it should reflect their interests entirely. I'm speculating.
I think the answer is that everybody needs to be at the table to make those decisions together so that we understand why it's important to continue to allow fishing activity in certain areas, and why it's important to protect other areas in order to enable other cultural or ecological objectives to be achieved.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Beaulieu.
That concludes our second panel.
I want to thank the witnesses for taking the time to be here today, and for their flexibility with some of the technical difficulties we were experiencing. Their testimonies are going to be very helpful as we finalize our report and the recommendations to government that will be flowing from that.
We are going to briefly suspend in order to move into the last part of our meeting in camera. Members of the public and witnesses will therefore need to leave the room before we get started with that.
[Proceedings continue in camera]