Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2009

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I'm more interested in the Canadians who are overseas and become ill or are admitted to hospital. I'm trying to get to the question—number one—of how many of your cases in these files are related to health care issues. Of those health care issues, how many of those Canadians do not have international health care coverage?

[Patricia Fortier]

That I will have to get back to you on. That's going rather deep into our statistical base.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Madam Fortier.

Madam Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to congratulate you on the information in the little "Bon Voyage, But..." brochure and on the Department's website. I have consulted them several times and I can say that it is in fact very well done. You do a good job of cautioning Canadians about what can happen when they travel outside the country.

I have a few brief questions. I would like you to submit your answers to the clerk in writing because we don't have a lot of time. What I am interested in is locally hired staff. We know that you have fewer and fewer resources in the Department of Foreign Affairs. You do not have a large budget and the question of locally hired staff is very important, for the subject we are discussing today, but also in terms of the answers that members' offices can give.

You are going to delay deploying 400 additional people who are to fill positions more or less all over the world. I would like to know the reason for that delay, first. And second, what will the impact be? Third, what training do you provide for locally hired staff? If they are dealing with Canadians, they can't put themselves in Canadians' shoes. Do you provide special training?

And last, Ms. Thomsen, you say in your presentation, "The Consular Operations Bureau also engages in strategic planning to identify resource needs and tools in order to improve the delivery of consular services." Could you submit the strategic plan you are currently working on to the clerk, if it is completed?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

I think we'll ask if you can submit something in writing to our committee a little later on. Our time is up. We have 15 minutes set aside for committee business.

My thanks to all four of you for attending from two different departments. This is all part of the comprehensive plan to deal with Canadians abroad, and we thank you for your input to our study. We look forward to your submissions and your answers to our questions later on.

We're going to move into committee business. We're going to deal with some of the motions.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madame Lalonde has asked to speak. Are you on a point of order?

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Yes. It arose from the previous discussion. Mr. Paul Dewar raised the point that I had breached the in camera steering committee. That was not true. I would like the clerk to go back to meeting number 34 or 35. We had discussed not going into specific cases in an open committee forum. I would like the clerk to check this out and report back next time. I did not, as Mr. Dewar alleged, breach the steering committee's confidentiality.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Obhrai has asked for clarification on a point raised by Mr. Dewar in meeting 34 or 35.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I think it was a meeting prior to the steering committee meeting. This matter was discussed in an open committee and not in the steering committee. Can we state clearly that I did not breach the committee's confidentiality?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I wasn't going to mention anything, but I saw the intervention coming yet again from Mr. Obhrai during my questioning. I was simply making the case that our discussion of this study took place in camera in the steering committee. Any references to what the parameters were was in camera. What I said beyond that is not relevant. I was speaking in reference to his point about planning for this meeting. That's my point and I'll leave it there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Unless Mr. Dewar withdraws the comment, our clerk will have to check on this. It may have come up in the steering committee, but it may also have come up publicly.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'll withdraw the comment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right; it is withdrawn.

Are you all right with that, Mr. Obhrai? It may be the closest thing you get to satisfaction today on it.

Thank you for withdrawing that comment, Mr. Dewar.

Madame Lalonde, you had asked for the floor.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Chair, at the last meeting I noticed that when Rights and Democracy appeared before the committee I wanted to resubmit the motion I had made regarding that organization. The procedure is that a motion may be moved when it relates directly to the witnesses appearing.

The motion could not be debated because time ran out. I would therefore like it to be debated, as a priority. I don't think it will take a lot of time. The committee should have no problem agreeing with the motion, which is in the document distributed by the clerk. I therefore so move.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

This was a motion of which you gave 48 hours' notice. It came before our committee, and that was the topic of debate that day. Our intent was to go to motions and hopefully in committee business....

I maybe should defer to the clerk on this one. The problem, I think, may be procedural. The problem might very well be that....

You don't necessarily have to wait for committee business to deal with a motion, if it comes specifically out of a recommendation, do you?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mrs. Carmen DePape]

After the notice period is past, the member can raise it at any time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. But what motions can come out of a meeting?

[The Clerk]

For example, as Madame Lalonde was saying, we were discussing the CIDA program, so she could have brought that up, to propose the motion right then. That is part of our routine motions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

So that could have been done right in routine motions. Usually, in order to adopt a motion specific to the case study, you need unanimous consent to deal with it, because then you're waiving the 48 hours. What you've done here is put it into the pool of motions, and part of the process that may be frustrating here is that it's a pool, and there are other motions that are before it. So that is part of the procedural problem.

Let me say that again. If the motion had come out of that meeting and we had unanimous agreement that we wanted to deal with a motion that has come specifically from the witnesses, you don't even need 48 hours' notice for it, and we would be dealing with the motion that has come out. But because this motion was submitted to be dealt with in committee business, the problem is that there are other motions in committee business as well. So that becomes the procedural problem.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Even though it was—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

—specific to the study. Your motion was specific to the study.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

—specific, and one committee meeting before the meeting in which we—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

So there are two possibilities here. Again I'm probably going to have to have our clerk tell us about the actual....

Are we prepared at this time to bring forward Madame Lalonde's motion?

I had Mr. Dewar first, I believe.

Were you waving concerning that matter, Paul?