Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 19th, 2013

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister

Minister Baird, may I ask how close we are to ratifying the UN Arms Trade Treaty?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We have committed to consult with Canadians before we make a final decision with respect to that. We're looking at what sort of consultation mechanism might take place and whether to hear from the broader arms control community, from industry, or from sport and hunters. We haven't set a timeline on that.

I do notice that the first few countries have begun to sign it. For example, the United States signed it, but it has not been submitted to Congress, and I would be quite surprised if the Democratic-controlled Senate were to ratify that. We'll look at it in terms of a process before we make any final conclusions.

I am confident, though, that the Canadian law is fairly strong on the export of armaments outside of Canada, and that it's among the very best in the world, so the effect for Canada, practically, will be quite small.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

It seems to have become a standard practice in recent years that at any international conference where small arms are involved or discussed, the only civil society representative allowed to take part in the Canadian delegation is the president of the Canadian Shooting Sports Association, Steven Torino. For example, he was added to the delegation at the UN meetings on the Arms Trade Treaty on the recommendation, I believe, of your office, and he was also at the UN Conference on the Convention Against Transnational Organized Crime in October in Vienna in 2012.

Can you tell me why Steven Torino seems to be the only representative from civil society invited on Canadian delegations to the UN where small arms are discussed?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Obviously, there is a significant amount of concern across the country, going back many years, with respect to the consequence of previous government's legislation affecting duck hunters, sportsmen, and sportswomen, so this has been a particular concern for our government.

Obviously, we think there's legitimate use, and by repealing the long-gun registry we have obviously honoured that request, and there was a heightened concern in that community, which we certainly worked with.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

Were members of other organizations in civil society also invited as part of the Canadian delegation to these discussions related to the UN Arms Trade Treaty?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

They were not.

[Marc Garneau, Liberal, Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC]

They were not. Okay.

Recently, with the CETA agreement in principle, Czechoslovakia has had the visa requirements on its nationals lifted. That happens to coincide with the CETA deal, and we're going to be looking to see if the same thing happens with Romania and Bulgaria.

I'd like to ask you about Mexico. It is a significantly greater trading partner of Canada within NAFTA and the situation with respect to visa requirements still prevails for Mexican nationals. Is there any plan to review that situation, given the very strong links we have with Mexico?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It's not part of my department, but I'm very pleased to respond to the question.

With respect to CETA, the decision with respect to the Czech Republic is self-evident. Obviously, we have to get all of the 28 members of the European Union to ratify the deal. And this has been an irritant. I wouldn't say it's a significant or a major irritant, but this has been an irritant, both for those two or three countries and for the folks in Brussels. So we're seeking to resolve that.

In the list—I believe it was in February or March—of the first 10 countries under the first piece of reform to refugee determination, we listed Mexico. Once the two pieces of legislation are fully implemented, the first of which passed before 2011 and is currently being implemented, and the second of which passed after 2011 in this Parliament, we would hope that there would be space to be able to review the visa requirements.

The concern I have is any thought by the Mexican public or Mexican leaders as to our motivations for putting in the visa requirement—that it has anything to do with Mexico or that it was something the United States requested us to do, or we did it because of concerns with respect to crime. It was just the volume of refugee claimants that we were getting and there was such a small percentage that were deemed to be valid, or the high percentage that were deemed to be...and just abandoned. The costs in that regard were exorbitant.

I know that my counterpart, Secretary Meade, and I, as well the Prime Minister and President Peña, had good conversations with Mexico, and I look forward to the day when we can eliminate that requirement. I don't have a particular day that I can offer, but I can say it's a priority.

Mexico is a huge economy, not just as part of NAFTA but also independently. I think in our lifetime it will be a G-10 economy and maybe even better than that. We have substantial interest.... It's our third biggest trading partner, it's an important political relationship for us, as well as in trade and commerce.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Garneau.

We're now going to start our second round, which will be five minutes for questions and answers.

We're going to start with Mr. Anderson.

Sir.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to share my time with Mr. Goldring. He has a couple of questions he'd like to ask as well.

But this is to Minister Baird. I notice in the supplementaries that we have a $7 million request for funding to combat human trafficking, and you—or perhaps it was Minister Yelich who said this—had mentioned the issue of forced marriage. Over the last few months, we've heard this issue coming to the forefront a little bit more. Girls are being trafficked into forced marriage and are often forced to forfeit their education, their health, and their lives.

How important is this issue to you? Can you give us a little bit of information on what Canada is doing to deal with it? I'm willing to listen to the other ministers as well, if they've got some areas in their portfolio that touch on this.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

The issue of early and forced marriage is not exclusively a women's issue. It's a human rights issue. It's increasingly a development issue. I think it's something that frankly has gone on for many centuries without being brought up and discussed.

For the last two years I have made this an issue. There is an excellent group called Girls Not Brides, which operates in Europe out of the United Kingdom. Princess Mabel of the Netherlands is the chair. There is also a group of elders including Mary Robinson and Desmond Tutu, who have advocated against this.

Every week tens of thousands of these young girls are forced into early marriage and are never able to finish their education. By extension their children also never get an education. So it becomes a cycle of dependency. They are never able to fully realize their potential, and the huge challenge this presents to the economic development of their country is profound.

We are working with other countries to begin to have this conversation internationally. We are putting some resources into this. I raised this at the Commonwealth in 2011 in Perth and it was sort of suggested to me that as this is an uncomfortable issue for some countries, that perhaps Canada wouldn't mind not pressing it so hard. If a country like Canada doesn't raise these issues, who is going to? We have tried to reach out and bring other people into a leadership role. The foreign minister of Ghana has started to work with us as have the development minister of the Netherlands and the new foreign minister of Italy. There is even some work being done in the United Arab Emirates by one of the sheikas.

This is an issue we want to introduce into the discussion at international fora. We had the first stand-alone resolution at the United Nations. We will never see Africa or South Asia reach their full potential until we grapple with this significant problem. We're in the early stages of putting it on the global map. We have put some financial resources into it, such as grants and contributions, and we're open to doing more work in this regard and encouraging other countries to join us.

This is along with the issue of rape as a weapon of war, on which Canada has worked with the United Kingdom, putting financial resources into that and joining the effort on that.

There is the early maternal health initiative that the Prime Minister has led, particularly with the accountability initiative on which he and the President of Tanzania have taken action. These are not women's issues; these are human rights issues. These are expressions of Canadian values, ones we would like to see.

It's interesting that when Minister Yelich took over her position as Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, in one of our first discussions I said we were not going to compartmentalize these types of issues as women's issues and put them on a different tier. These are fundamental priorities for Canada. They are not just human rights issues but development issues and economic issues, because if these young women don't reach their full potential, how are Ethiopia, Sudan, or India ever going to realize their full economic potential?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you. That's all the time we have.

We're going to turn it over to Madame Laverdière for five minutes.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

It is Mr. Dewar.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I believe Mr. Dewar is going to start the questioning.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I wanted just to finish up a question to Minister Baird.

Minister, maybe this is something you can get back to us on. It's about the allocation piece and the approval of projects. Could you just give us an idea of how long it takes to consider a proposal from the time it's passed through your office until it's approved? Could you give us an idea of the timing? It's important to note the speed at which things are being approved, because there is all this money that's been lapsed. Could you provide that information to us?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Let me say this. Obviously I have responsibility for a smaller percentage of grants and contributions in terms of development, because we have a Minister of Development and he has—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I just mean in your portfolio.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Within my portfolio?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Yes. I want to know how long it takes from when it comes to you to be approved.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

When they reach my desk I certainly try to make decisions as expeditiously as possible.

I looked at the numbers. You claimed $300 million was under-spent. That's about 8.8% of the budget, so it's a rather small percentage of it. Some of that can be carried over. Some of that is money we don't have access to, for example, as it's the result of currency fluctuations.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I understand that part.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We make a guess at what our international contribution will be before we get the actual invoices for things like the United Nations, etc. We get bailed out when we're too short and the money goes back when it's too much, which, frankly, I would prefer.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm curious about how long it takes for approval of projects. Perhaps you could get back to us.

I would finally submit, Minister, that it's not about the projects that come to you for approval directly from people who want money. It actually goes to your department. It's our constituents who approve them. That's what my contention is about. Why is it taking so long for the approvals from the department to get to you? Why aren't these being approved? The approval process from your bureaucrats seemingly gets stuck with you.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I don't make any bones about that. I don't wake up every morning with a desire to spend every single dollar that I can possibly spend.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You know that's not what we're talking about here. It's about people who are working on the ground wanting to get support. It goes through our public service and they do a darn good job of prioritizing. It seems to stop with you.