Foreign Affairs Committee on May 2nd, 2017

[The Chair (Hon. Robert Nault (Kenora, Lib.)), Liberal, Bob Nault]

Colleagues, I want to bring this meeting to order. Pursuant to Standing Orders 110 and 111, this is on the order in council appointment of the Honourable Stéphane Dion to the position of ambassador. This was referred to the committee on Friday, February 24, 2017.

We're going to move this along at a fairly good clip. We'll let the Honourable Stéphane Dion, our new ambassador to Germany, make some opening comments, and then we'll get right into questions. As you know, there's a vote this morning. As usual, it will interrupt our proceedings. We'll try to manage the clock as best we can.

First of all, I want to introduce our witness and the ambassador, Mr. Dion, and his colleague Alexandra Bugailiskis. She is the assistant deputy minister of Europe, Middle East, and Maghreb. She'll be here to answer some of the technical questions, if Mr. Dion doesn't know everything that we think he does. That won't be a problem for Alexandra this morning.

I'm going to turn the floor over to the Honourable Stéphane Dion for opening comments, and then we'll go into the usual practice of Q and A.

Mr. Dion, the floor is yours.

[Stéphane Dion, Ambassador-Designate, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen members of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, I want to thank all of you for having invited me this morning.

I am happy to be joined by Ms. Alexandra Bugailiskis, Assistant Deputy Minister at Global Affairs Canada for Europe, the Middle East and the Maghreb.

I am sure you will all agree that the relationship our country entertains with the European continent will be particularly crucial in next few years, both because of the opportunities Europe offers us and the challenges we will both have to face. We will meet these challenges more effectively if Canadians and Europeans work closely together.

I will begin by speaking of the opportunities.

Europe is nothing less than the world's second-largest market, with over 500 million consumers and a GDP of $21 trillion. We are speaking about the world's largest importer of aerospace products, fish and seafood, oil and gas products, telecommunications, and computer and information services. It's the world's second-largest importer of automotive goods, and Canada has less than 1% of that business today. It is the second-largest importer of medical devices and pharmaceutical products, and our second-largest customer of metals and minerals.

We need to make sure that the comprehensive economic and trade agreement is a success, not just a signed agreement. It must be a reality on the ground that will provide jobs for our workers and investments for our economy.

Today only 26% of EU tariff lines on Canadian goods are duty free. With CETA, 98% of EU tariff lines will be duty free for Canadian goods. For example, after tariffs as high as 10% are cut, exporters of Canadian forestry products will have an opportunity to increase their EU market share.

CETA will open new agriculture and agri-food market opportunities for Canadian exporters, with almost 94% of EU agriculture tariffs becoming duty free. The EU annual infrastructure outlay is estimated at $400 billion, larger than that of the United States. The EU has earmarked hundreds of billions of euros for transportation, energy, and broadband projects by 2020. CETA is, for us, a golden opportunity to succeed in this huge market.

CETA is more than a welcome lever for our economic growth. It is also the opportunity to show our population and the world that trade and societal progress may go hand in hand. There is no need to choose between trade and progress. It is the way to pull together our ability to share the best practices for social justice, environmental sustainability, labour rights, food safety, and so on.

I will now move from the opportunities to the challenges.

Those the European Union faces were summarized quite recently by Mr. Donald Tusk, President of the European Council, and I quote: “The second threat, an internal one, is connected with the rise in anti-EU, nationalist, increasingly xenophobic sentiment in the EU itself. [...] A decline of faith in political integration, submission to populist arguments, as well as doubt in the fundamental values of liberal democracy are all increasingly visible.”

Ladies and gentlemen members of Parliament, Canada and Europe are facing issues that know no borders, and which they will resolve better together.

Our demographic weight is declining in the world, and our population is aging. Consequently, our productivity and efficiency have to increase.

Our populations are becoming more diverse and more heterogeneous. In light of that, let us make diversity our strength, more than ever before.

Gender equality has not yet been achieved. Consequently, let us find inspiration in the best breakthroughs in Canada and in Europe.

The globalization of markets and automation are leaving behind whole categories of workers. Consequently, let us find a path together to inclusive growth.

Our planet can no longer tolerate the ravages of self-destructive development. Consequently, let us together find a path to sustainable development.

Our vast common neighbour, Russia, worries us. Consequently, let us strengthen our common defence with the United States, while resolutely conducting the necessary dialogue. Let us also strengthen co-operation in order to meet the common terrorist threat.

Not only will our free trade agreement help us, Europeans and Canadians, to meet these challenges together, but of the fact that Europeans and Canadians are now officially strategic partners will also help us to do so.

Indeed, in addition to CETA, we have also just concluded a strategic partnership agreement. This agreement encompasses key parts of our bilateral and multilateral co-operation, such as peace and security, clean energy and climate change, the promotion of human rights, sustainable development, and science and innovation.

As we can see, the relationship between Europe and Canada is truly at a crucial time. To maximize our chances of success, the Prime Minister is convinced that a new resource is needed: a senior diplomat to Europe playing an overarching role in advancing Canada's interests throughout Europe, ensuring coherence across the activities of Canadian diplomatic missions, and providing guidance to the Prime Minister.

The Canadian presence in Europe is presently in 32 countries through 36 bilateral missions, in addition to eight multilateral missions. The Prime Minister wants the senior diplomat to help him, the government, the foreign affairs minister, and all our ambassadors and missions pull together Canada's pan-European efforts. The Prime Minister wants this diplomat to be posted in one of the key European countries, and from there, ensure a more cohesive diplomacy aimed at advancing our shared interests with the whole of Europe.

Among these key European countries, Germany is an excellent choice in which to anchor this new diplomatic resource, if only because it is Europe's leading economic power: its GDP of more than $4 billion represents 21% of the GDP of the European Union.

As a G7, G20, and NATO partner, Germany co-operates with Canada across a range of issue areas, such as transnational relations, Russia and Ukraine, counterterrorism, the global fight against Daesh, and migration. As the ambassador to Germany, I will be working extremely hard, supported by our strong and professional mission, to strengthen this key economic and political relationship, which is key not only for our goals in Europe but in fact across the globe.

The Prime Minister has asked me to be this principal diplomat, as ambassador to Germany and as his special envoy to the European Union and Europe. I have accepted that responsibility. I have prepared actively for it over the past weeks, and I am anxious to leave for Europe and undertake this important task, for the prime minister, the government, and my country. I know that expectations are high, not only in Canada, but also in Europe.

In the letter they just wrote to the Prime Minister to welcome my appointment, the presidents for the European Council and for the European Commission, Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker, said that this appointment “affords us the chance to take those relations to a new level” and to “champion our shared values of freedom, human rights and democracy as well as our shared dedication to the market economy, so as to drive forward our common interests in a period of unprecedented challenges.”

I will do everything I can to rise to these expectations. I am eager to take up my responsibilities and I know that in this journey, I will always benefit from the advice and hard work of this committee.

Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. Danke schön.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Nault]

Thank you very much, Ambassador. Those were good opening comments.

I'm going to go, as I said, quickly to the Q and As to keep us on time.

Mr. Kent, go ahead, please.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Ambassador-Designate, thank you for being here this morning.

Mr. Dion, we're all aware of secondary ambassadorial representation to smaller countries from a primary diplomatic post, but can you please tell us who came up with the bizarre concept of having a Canadian ambassador represent two major governments? Was it your condition to the Prime Minister's appointment after the cabinet shuffle? Was it in the Prime Minister's condition?

[Stéphane Dion]

I never made any condition to the Prime Minister. You don't ask anything to a Prime Minister. You listen to what he wants you to do, and you—

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Sometimes you negotiate.

[Stéphane Dion]

I never did it, never. I never ask for anything in politics.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Okay. Who came up with the concept for the Prime Minister?

[Stéphane Dion]

The Prime Minister told me—and he said the same thing publicly—that under the new circumstances in which we are and in which Europe is, he felt the need to strengthen our ability to address these challenges through a new diplomatic resource, and he asked me to be that. That's really the way it has been communicated to Canadians and to me, the same way.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Your appointment to both the EU and Germany provoked outspoken and widespread criticism from retired Canadian diplomats, and I am well aware of some seething frustration within the Global Affairs department today. We've also experienced in our meetings with the EU delegation here in Ottawa an awful lot of head shaking in trying to understand exactly what this concept was meant to deliver in terms of a message. It turns out in the end, unfortunately for you, that critics of this double appointment have been proven correct.

For those of us who have been around for a while—and I haven't been around as long as some on this committee have—it was a real head-shaker that anyone would have made this bizarre appointment and that no one with experience had raised concerns before it was made.

What are your thoughts?

[Stéphane Dion]

I'm aware that discussions happen, some positive, or a different view from the one you expressed. I'm accustomed to that. Since I am in the public service, I've already been around some very lively discussions about me and what I am doing for my country. I'm convinced that what the Prime Minister is proposing may be new but is needed, and I will do everything to make him right and to work closely with you and with this committee to be sure that this will be an addition to our ability to address, with Europe, the challenges that I just described in my presentation.

But you're right; it's a new way to address new challenges.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Aside from your rejection by the EU, I'd like to explore another set of relationships you will have, not only as special adviser to our ambassador to the EU. As you know, Pierre Pettigrew is performing ad hoc diplomatic envoy service in pursuit of the ratification of CETA. I'm just wondering how you will relate to him. What is the division of responsibilities? What are the reporting lines between the ambassador to the EU, you as a special adviser to the EU, and Mr. Pettigrew?

[Stéphane Dion]

Mr. Kent, I know that you want CETA. I want CETA. We'll work together to be sure that it will work well for our economy and our people and our relationship with Europe. Mr. Pettigrew is doing that. I will do it as well. The Minister of Trade, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Prime Minister, and the opposition are all in the same boat trying to make it work well for our country. We will work closely with you on that.

I have met with Mr. Pettigrew more than once in the last weeks to discuss where we are and how we can make progress. I know Pierre very well and I'm sure we'll work very closely together.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Finally, I would like to ask what exactly is the definition of your special adviser role. This is a very unique role to the EU.

Are you back-seat driving the ambassador to the EU? Will you have special access to members of the EU or to the EU leadership? Please offer us a definition.

[Stéphane Dion]

Since it was the Prime Minister's idea, I think it's good to stick to his own words. His words have not changed over the months; it's always the same thing. If I may quote him from last January, he said, “Mr. Dion will play a central role in advancing Canada's interests...ensuring coherence across the activities of Canadian...missions, and providing strategic guidance to the Prime Minister”. Mr. Dion's position will be an “enormous strategic benefit” for Canada. It will engage with European partners, the highest levels on behalf of the Government of Canada, spending his time in both Brussels and Berlin, and everywhere in Europe.

It will be very demanding, but I'm in good health. I will do everything to deliver on what the Prime Minister is asking me to do. I know that this committee will also be a good adviser to me.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Nault]

Thank you, Mr. Kent.

We'll go to Mr. Fragiskatos, please.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Monsieur Dion, thank you so much for being here today.

In your book Straight Talk, which was admittedly written a number of years ago but I think is still highly relevant, especially for addressing a number of challenges that the world is facing today, you wrote that our linguistic diversity has helped Canada become a model of openness celebrated throughout the world.

With the rise of xenophobic sentiment in a number of European countries, I wonder if you could speak to Canada's role in terms of telling our story of diversity, our linguistic diversity, multicultural diversity, and how we can serve as a model, if you like, or as an example, for a world that is grappling with so many challenges right now.

[Stéphane Dion]

It is true that we are perceived this way. In many corners of the world, they see Canada as a country of tolerance and openness. I think it's because of our history, which has been very difficult, with a lot of dark pages, but at the end of the day, we had to invent other models than assimilation and it helped us to welcome the world. This being said, we are not as good as the model describes us; we have a lot of progress to make.

When I was in politics, I did my best to make improvements to our ability to be at the scope of the model we are identified with. However, around the world, they look at us, and our Prime Minister, our Parliament, and all of us, as an inspiration in some ways. We should avoid lecturing the world. We should avoid pretending that we are much better than others, but we should share the best practices, the best ideas, the best values. Europeans are eager to do that.

It is something that I would be very pleased to participate in.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Can you talk about that? I've often wondered about the tension that exists sometimes when a country such as Canada is trying to show itself as an example but trying to avoid imposing its model or its story.

Can you talk about how a country such as ours can avoid imposing, and instead engage and encourage?

[Stéphane Dion]

Yes. I think when we go to a country, let's say Germany, they had to accept almost one million people, without any filter, over one year. Imagine that in Canada. When our Prime Minister said we'd welcome 25,000 refugees from Syria, Canadians knew it would not be 250,000. They knew that we'd look at who we are welcoming. If we didn't have this ability to handle our immigration and our refugee policy, I think we would be much more nervous about all these issues.

We need to understand the context in Europe. This being said, we should have zero tolerance for intolerance. There are so many Germans who share this view—zero tolerance for intolerance—but we need to work together with them, with a deep understanding of the challenges they are facing.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

You talk about the experience of accepting Syrian refugees here in Canada, and I want to build off that if I could.

Do you think there is an opportunity in your role to share best practices with European countries in terms of what we've done here in Canada? I note also, at least as far as I understand, Britain is looking to Canada's private sponsorship system as a way to approach accepting refugees and expanding its system along those lines.

I wonder if you could speak to those points.

[Stéphane Dion]

Yes. Precisely because we are one of the few developed countries that has the ability to handle our immigration policy, we are an inspiration for many countries that are not surrounded by oceans and a big buffer, which is the richest country in the world, south of our border. We need to show that we have the ability to use this opportunity in a positive way to welcome the world and to be strong through our diversity.

As much as we share these challenges and solutions that we find working, we'll have a lot of interest around the world, especially today in Europe, to have an exchange about that. An aspect of our partnership strategic agreement is on these issues. I will make sure that it's well coordinated, that it's more than just talk, and that it will result in the best policies both for Canada and for Europe.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Nault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fragiskatos.

We'll now move to Madam Laverdière.