Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 17th, 2020

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I would ask Shirley Carruthers to confirm that for us.

[Shirley Carruthers, Director General, Financial Resource, Planning and Management Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I have those numbers on my desk in front of me. If you give me a couple of minutes, I could provide the actual numbers and the—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Sure, and I could ask a question in the meantime, perhaps.

One of my next questions is about our contribution to COVAX. I'm delighted that Canada has contributed over $500 million to that initiative. However, we have seen that Canada has also bought more than 10 times what we require for a domestic response.

It does seem reasonable that our international response would be equal to our domestic response, considering that all modelling shows that not only will we save about 28% more lives, but also that our economic outcomes will be much better as we recover.

Will there be further investment in COVAX and in making sure that less fortunate countries have access to vaccines in a timely manner?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

Sorry, I was going to call you Heather, but Ms. McPherson, for the question.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Feel free.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I share your passion for access to equitable vaccines, which is why I was so pleased that we made the contribution to both the COVAX facility for self-financing countries and the AMC to assist low-income countries' access to the vaccine.

I would note that Canada contributed the same amount to the AMC that we did to the COVAX facility. Canada is the second-largest contributor to the COVAX facility, after the United Kingdom.

When it comes to the ACT Accelerator—which is with regard to access to vaccines, therapeutics, diagnostics and health systems—Canada is the fourth-largest contributor overall in the world at this point in time.

Obviously, when it comes to vaccines, we understand that this is going to be an ongoing process. We have been very involved with research and development, and we are having lots of conversations with Gavi, with the WHO, and with other partners involved in the ACT Accelerator process.

We're continuing to encourage other countries to also join and to increase their contributions. We will continue to have conversations to see what Canadian leadership will continue to look like within this facility.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

There will probably be no more additional funds from Canada, though, at this time.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I would say that we are having active, ongoing conversations, and we are working with our international partners to make sure that COVAX is a success.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

To follow up a little bit, I'd like to squeeze in one last question. In terms of Canada's response to COVID-19, I know that you are aware that the sector has asked that 1% of our federal COVID spending go to international development and the COVID response.

Could you talk about what we've done and perhaps indicate when the funds are new funds, and when the funds have been reallocated from within the Global Affairs Canada budget?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

As I said, we have announced $1.1 billion to respond to COVID specifically. I will get Shirley to confirm the numbers, but I believe that is new, additional funding. We had $200 million that came from existing reference levels that was announced back in April. In addition to that, we have reallocated $350 million internally to respond to COVID-19 from existing resources.

If you add all of those together, we're well over $1.5 billion, but $1.1 billion is new resources not existing ones. Perhaps Shirley—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much for that, Minister. Maybe you can follow up in a subsequent round.

We will now go to the second round of questions. I remind colleagues and witnesses that these next rounds consist of tighter time frames. They are for five minutes or two and a half minutes. I'm encouraging everybody to be as concise as possible in their questions and answers.

The first questioner will be Mr. Genuis, for five minutes, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have to say that I'm struck by the lack of response to what is the most predictable and most basic question, Minister. Everybody knows, generally speaking, that international development assistance levels are measured as a percentage of gross national income. For you to say that it requires calculations that you don't have in front of you for our current or projected levels is, I think, quite surprising.

Going back to your transition binder, I note that it says “the ODA ratio is currently projected to be”—and the number is redacted—“percent in calendar year 2019”. The lack of willingness to talk about that percentage is, it seems, consistent.

We could talk about projects and impacts all we like, but I think everybody knows that the ability to run a certain number of projects or not is dependent on the level.

I would like to try to get more clarity from you about the government's policy with respect to ODA levels. In particular, you have spoken about the government's intention to increase ODA spending every year towards 2030. We know, though, that because of inflation, every dollar becomes worth a little bit less every year.

I want to know from you, Minister, whether the government policy is to increase ODA levels in nominal terms, in real terms or as a percentage of gross national income.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

With all due respect, when the question was posed by Ms. McPherson on what the impact will be on the percentage of our ODA moving forward, right now we're projected at 0.28%. However, with the additional resources that have come online, particularly in recent months, and with fluctuations and changes in GDP, that is something we will be able to get back to the committee with greater detail, as those numbers are changing.

What I am doing right now is committing to provide the numbers I have on hand, which is with regard to the total overall percentage. It is always interesting from a Conservative member of Parliament to—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

I think you were going to talk about the Conservative record. Under Stephen Harper, aid as a percentage of GNI was actually much higher. It was always over 0.3%. I wonder if you want to confirm that current spending, as a percentage of GNI, is lower than it was at all points under the Harper government.

I also want to pin you down specifically on the commitment of the government. Is the government committing to increase aid spending in real terms, in nominal terms, or as a percentage of GNI? Which of those three is it?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Actually, Mr. Genuis, I was going to comment that your party campaigned on cutting ODA by 25% in the last election, so it's a little interesting that you're so concerned about this. I hope this means that you're actually supportive of our increasing international assistance.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, I am concerned about that, and I'm asking you—

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I hope that's what this is about, and perhaps your party would go on the record on that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, you're the minister and I'm not. Maybe I will be at some point, but for the time being you're the minister.

What is the commitment of the government? I'll give you one more chance to answer, and if not, the record will show that you didn't answer it. Is the commitment to increase nominal spending, real spending or spending as a percentage of GNI? Which is it?

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

I hope your interest in this is a confirmation—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's not the question, Minister.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

—that your party would increase international assistance. I would note that when Stephen Harper was prime minister, he actually froze any increases to the international assistance budget. When we came into power, we increased it by $2 billion in 2018, and we're continuing—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, are you answering the question?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Dr. Fry, on a point of order.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

I know we disagree a lot at committees, depending on our party objectives or our party ideologies. I do think we should do one thing on the committee. We should respect the witness.

The minister has been asked to answer, and every time she tries to answer, the honourable member cuts her off. Could we let her share what she has to say, please, if he really wishes to hear the answer?

Thank you.