Evidence of meeting #5 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spent.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Shirley Carruthers  Director General, Financial Resource, Planning and Management Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Elissa Golberg  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Peter MacDougall  Assistant Deputy Minister, Global Issues and Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Leslie MacLean  Deputy Minister of International Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Caroline Leclerc  Assistant Deputy Minister, Partnerships for Development Innovation, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Erica Pereira

November 17th, 2020 / 3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann

Colleagues, welcome to meeting 5 of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Pursuant to the orders of reference from the House of Commons of April 20 and September 30, and the order of reference of the committee on October 13, the committee is meeting to commence consideration of votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, L25 and L30 under the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development; Vote 1 under International Development Research Centre; and Vote 1 under International Joint Commission (Canadian Section).

The committee will also review the Minister of International Development's mandate letter.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, and it is also the first meeting as part of the House of Commons pilot project for webinar formats. The pilot project is for public committee meetings, and is available only to members and their staff.

Members may have remarked that the entry into the meeting was much quicker, as they immediately entered as an active participant. All functionalities for active participants will remain the same. Staff will be non-active participants, and can therefore only view the meeting in gallery view.

I would like to thank our witnesses for helping us to carry out this pilot project.

I hope you have a good experience.

As a reminder to all participants in this meeting, screen shots or photos of your screen are not permitted. This was highlighted by Speaker Rota on September 29.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I will outline a few customary rules to follow.

Witnesses and members may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available at the bottom of your screen.

Members attending in person must conduct themselves as they would normally if all committee members were meeting in person in a committee room.

Keep in mind the Board of Internal Economy's guidelines for wearing masks, as well as health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until you are recognized by name.

If you are on video conference, please click on the microphone to unmute yourself, and if you are in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer. When you have 30 seconds remaining in your questioning time, I will signal you by holding up this yellow sheet of paper.

I would now like to extend a warm welcome to Minister Gould, Minister of International Development, and her team.

We welcome Leslie MacLean, Deputy Minister of International Development; Elissa Golberg, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy; and Caroline Leclerc, Assistant Deputy Minister, Partnerships for Development Innovation.

We have Peter MacDougall, assistant deputy minister, global issues and development; Anick Ouellette, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer, corporate planning, finance and information technology; and Shirley Carruthers, director general, financial resource, planning and management bureau.

For the benefit of members, I will quickly note that the votes on the main estimates will take place next week, after we have heard from both ministers.

Minister Gould, it is my pleasure to give you the floor for your initial presentation of 10 minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Burlington Ontario

Liberal

Karina Gould LiberalMinister of International Development

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It is really a delight to be with everyone, to see all of you right across the country virtually, and to have this conversation.

I'm pleased to be here today to present the 2020-2021 Main Estimates for the international development component of Global Affairs Canada's portfolio.

We must remember that, even before the COVID-19 pandemic, many countries were faced with the challenge of achieving sustainable and inclusive economic growth, maintaining social cohesion and managing prices. While concrete gains have been made to reduce extreme poverty with Canadian support, including increased access to education, health and nutritious food, not all have benefited equally. More than 1.3 billion people living in poverty face several interrelated challenges, often compounded by inequalities and, in many cases, by prolonged humanitarian crises or the impacts of climate change.

COVID-19 added to these difficulties. The pandemic is expected to drive between 88 million and 115 million people into extreme poverty this year—the first increase since 1998—while also delaying progress in development, especially for women and children already living in extreme poverty. It is also expected to increase exclusion and marginalization.

This is not only a problem abroad. COVID-19 provides a profound and compelling demonstration of how the health and prosperity of Canadians depends on a coordinated global response and recovery. Until this crisis is resolved globally, until we help build more resilient and sustainable social and economic systems, we will continue to be impacted domestically.

Canada has demonstrated its commitment to vigorous efforts to address the devastating effects of COVID-19 around the world. Beyond a doubt, the COVID-19 crisis and the economic disruption it is causing represent the most significant shock to global development since the Second World War.

The Government of Canada has organized its international response to the pandemic around three pillars of strategic action where Canada can have a direct impact.

First, we are fighting the pandemic by building capacity to achieve sustainable, health-related development goals and supporting equitable access to COVID-19 testing, treatment and vaccine.

Second, we are striving to manage financial stresses and stabilize economies by restoring global supply chains and ensuring financial liquidity and stability in developing countries.

Lastly, we are supporting the most vulnerable by strengthening recovery through our humanitarian response, by supporting food security and education, and by addressing the long-term socio-economic impacts of the pandemic.

Canada's feminist international assistance policy provides the necessary framework for action. The priorities set out in the policy target the issues where support is needed, focused as it is on helping the poorest and most vulnerable, especially women and girls and those living in fragile states, to recover.

Since the policy's launch in 2017, we have made significant progress on implementing the policy and its related initiatives and commitments. I will come back to these accomplishments shortly, but would first like to turn to the main estimates.

Because of the timing of the main estimates, which were originally presented on February 27, 2020, the 2020-21 main estimates did not include additional international assistance funding specific to the COVID-19 response.

The 2020-21 main estimates include an amount of $823.4 million to further the implementation of the feminist international assistance policy. This includes $410.5 million in international assistance envelope funding to support initiatives linked to specific policy action areas such as the women's voice and leadership initiative, Canada's humanitarian assistance, and sexual and reproductive health and rights programming; $195 million to support the establishment of the equality fund; and $145.1 million to support the implementation of the international assistance innovation program and sovereign loans program.

Additionally, the 2020-21 main estimates include a net increase of $297.3 million, compared to the 2019-20 main estimates, to implement programming to help developing countries address the impact of climate change.

For example, Canada is supporting the World Bank Canada clean energy and forest facility to help reduce deforestation and forest degradation through sustainable forest management. Canada is also supporting the Canadian climate fund for the private sector in the Americas, phase II, which aims to catalyze private sector investments and climate change mitigation and adaptation across Latin America and the Caribbean region. Recognizing that the Paris Agreement aims to limit global temperature increases, a majority of Canada's climate finance programming targets mitigation efforts primarily through renewable energy.

I would like to note that significant progress continues to be made in advancing the feminist international assistance policy, and the majority of Canada's commitments are on track to be achieved. In the 2018-19 report to Parliament on the Government of Canada's international assistance, we outlined how the policy is being pursued and what results have been achieved. It was the first combined report on international assistance as part of our efforts to increase transparency to Canadians.

However, I should flag that new funding to help respond to the COVID-19 pandemic will have an impact on the department's ability to meet targets for the current fiscal year.

More broadly, over the past fiscal year, I have also been focused on realizing the commitments outlined in my mandate letter as minister for international development. As of March 2020, we've fulfilled the 2015 commitment to allocate $3.5 billion for maternal, newborn and child health, as well as the 2017 commitment to allocate $650 million towards sexual and reproductive health and rights.

Preliminary statistics show that in 2019-20, Canada met its commitment and is on track to meeting the 2021-22 target of directing 95% of Canada's bilateral international development assistance to initiatives that advance gender equality.

The women's voice and leadership initiative now supports local women's organizations and movements in over 30 countries and regions. We are moving forward with supporting innovative programming by Canadian small and medium-sized organizations in partnership with local organizations.

Equitable access to education is critical for everyone, particularly the most vulnerable. To this end, I will be launching an international campaign in early 2021 to ensure that refugee and displaced children get the education they need and deserve. Additionally, we are well on our way to directing 10% of our bilateral international development assistance towards education initiatives—currently at 9%. Officials are also developing new programming to address other key issues, including the unequal distribution of unpaid care work.

We are also supporting women in developing countries who are at the front lines of climate adaptation efforts through new investments such as a $150-million loan to the international fund for agricultural development to support climate-smart agriculture in developing countries and by providing $20 million for the Canada-CARICOM climate adaptation fund.

Canada continues to be recognized for our leadership on innovative financing in support of the SDGs. We co-chair the UN Group of Friends on SDG Financing, in New York, and, building on this work, Prime Minister Trudeau, alongside Prime Minister Holness of Jamaica and UN Secretary-General Guterres, is leading a process with leaders from around the world on financing for development in the era of COVID-19 and beyond to encourage inclusive and creative solutions to finance the recovery.

I also remain committed to ensuring that Canada's international assistance is effective, transparent and accountable. For example, Global Affairs has streamlined funding applications and is implementing the civil society partnerships for international assistance policy. Furthermore, restructuring the international assistance envelope has provided Canadians and the international community with clearer, more comprehensive information on our international assistance programming.

Finally, our government is also increasing Canada's international assistance and will be doing so as we work toward 2030 in support of the SDGs. In 2021, we allocated $4.9 billion toward international assistance objectives, an increase from $4.6 billion the previous year.

Mr. Chair, committee members, our government is working hard to implement the feminist international assistance policy, especially during this unprecedented pandemic, and seeking to build a more peaceful, inclusive and prosperous world.

Thank you for your time. I look forward to your questions.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann

Thank you very much, Minister.

We are now going to our first round, which consists of six-minute interventions. First up is Mr. Genuis.

The floor is yours, sir.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Thank you, Minister, and I want to thank you for your service to Canada in this important role.

My first round of questions will be about Canada's involvement in the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, a Beijing-controlled development bank that is part of the Chinese government's neo-colonial belt and road initiative.

Is the money that the Government of Canada contributes to the AIIB considered part of the government's development assistance?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

Thank you, Mr. Genuis, for the question. And I note that we first started working together four years ago on this committee when I was the parliamentary secretary.

With regard to the AIIB, this is part of Canada's development assistance. However, it is managed through Finance Canada, and not through Global Affairs Canada .

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Thank you.

How much money has the government sent to the AIIB to date?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

I would have to refer to one of my colleagues on the call, but as I noted, this is Finance Canada's, and not Global Affairs Canada's. So it's really the Minister of Finance who is the governor for the AIIB. I'm the governor for the Asian Development Bank.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Right. But it does, as I believe you've just said, contribute to what you perceive to be Canada's overall ODA spending.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

The Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank is a multilateral development bank. Canada, alongside like-minded countries like Germany, and France and South Korea, is a members of this. I would note that the AIIB also co-funds projects with other partners with whom we work, such as the World Bank or the Asian Development Bank. But again, these questions are better placed to the Minister of Finance.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Thank you, Minister.

They are questions about international development and I'd like to know your perspective on them, in particular as it pertains to our foreign policy. Is it reasonable to infer from Canadian participation in the AIIB that Canada supports the belt and road initiative?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

The AIIB and the belt and road initiative are not linked initiatives. They are separate. The AIIB undertakes development projects in Asia-Pacific. Canada's participation in the AIIB is part of our engagement in the Asia-Pacific region. We work with the AIIB, and they adhere to multilateral standards with regard to the development projects they fund. I would note that the AIIB does not directly fund projects that are associated with the belt and road initiative.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Okay.

Minister, I would somewhat disagree with that. In my disagreement, I would reference page 63 of your own transition binder, which reads as follows:

The Chinese government has been pushing for reforms to the global governance structure to reflect its rising status. China is no longer a rules-taker, but increasingly a rules-maker in the global arena, as exemplified by its establishment of the AIIB.

It later says on that page:

The Chinese government has established alternative multilateral forums, such as the AIIB and Belt and Road Initiative to provide soft loans and infrastructure investment with fewer conditions. China has utilized these alternative forums to leverage its economic prowess to gain regional influence and export its model of governance around the world.

I wonder if the minister could clarify if she agrees with the words of her own public servants in that transition binder.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

I would note that you're making—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Chair, before the minister answers, I have a point of order. I'm hearing the French translation back while speaking.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann

Madam Clerk, let me just take that point. We'll suspend briefly to see if that's something that can be fixed quickly.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

I'm not hearing it anymore, so maybe it's been resolved already.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann

Okay, perfect.

Minister, please continue.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Hopefully that will not come off my time.

Go ahead, Minister.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

I would just note that you are making an inference that there is a connection between the two initiatives, which was not actually stated in the transition binder. In the binder they mentioned two initiatives to be aware of, but they did not explicitly link them.

What I would say is that what is very important for Canada, whether it is within the multilateral development bank system or whether it is with other multilateral organizations, is that we continue to push everyone, whether they are traditional OECD DAC donors or new donors, to abide by the best rules of aid effectiveness and ensure that they follow the rules.

Furthermore, part of Canada's being a member of the AIIB is that we have a seat of the table, and thus are are able to have a seat when it comes to governance and to push China and other actors to follow the best principles when it comes to international assistance.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Thank you, Minister.

The crucial point from that transition binder, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that the AIIB is part of China's strategic agenda to push forward its model of governance around the world. I don't know why Canada would want to be part of that. I'd be curious about your thoughts on why Canada is part of a body that, as your own public servants are telling you, is aimed at exporting the Chinese state model of governance.

I also want to ask you about this argument about having a voice at the table. You said this gives Canada a voice at the table. Canadian membership in AIIB, which costs us hundreds of millions of dollars, gives us 1.03% of voting power. My staff went through records of meetings. As far as we were able to identify, Canada wasn't mentioned in any agenda items and made two recorded statements in board meetings over the entirety of our membership thus far.

What is the purpose, then, of having a voice at the table, if Canada has ostensibly spoken twice in the course of our presence there and if the objective of this bank is to advance the strategic objectives and governance models of the Chinese government? Why are we putting taxpayers' dollars...?

By the way, how much more good could we be doing around the world if those dollars were put towards actually helping children and vulnerable people who are suffering from malnutrition and lack of education?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann

Please give a very brief answer, Minister.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would say that Canada puts close to $1.1 billion into health, nutrition and human dignity initiatives around the world.

Of course, as I mentioned at the outset, I'm not the governor for the AIIB. That is the Minister of Finance.

I am the governor for the Asian Development Bank. While it is part of our international development assistance overall, it's not part of the portfolio that I manage.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sven Spengemann

Thank you very much, Minister.

Our next round of questions goes to Ms. Sahota.

Go ahead, please. The floor is yours.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Thank you.

Minister Gould, it's nice to have you at committee today. I hope Oliver is doing well. I definitely miss seeing him around the House of Commons. It looks as though he's grown quite a bit.

My first question is along the lines of the feminist international assistance policy objectives to have 95% of Canada's bilateral international development assistance target or integrate gender equality and the empowerment of women and girls. I believe 6% is what is being spent now, and we want to get to about 15% in the years 2021 and 2022.

I am wondering if you can highlight how we intend to get there, what the different programs are and where this money is going and if you can elaborate on some of the help that is being provided and will be provided through this program.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

Thank you so much, Ruby, for the question. It's nice to see you as well. Oliver is doing great; thank you for asking.

When it comes to the feminist international assistance policy and our gender equality target, we have set a target for ourselves that 95% of all of our development assistance would incorporate gender equality within its programs. We are on track to meet that commitment for this year.

I would note that since we brought in the feminist international assistance policy in 2017, Canada has become the top donor in the OECD DAC for gender equality. That is a huge achievement. Kudos of course, to the former minister, Marie-Claude Bibeau, for putting that forward and driving that agenda, and to all of the incredible public servants at Global Affairs Canada who have made that a reality.

We have also committed to having 15% of our programming be classified as a GE-3 or gender equality 3 project, which means that the primary objective of the project is to enhance gender equality. Whether those are projects that are advancing women's rights, fighting gender-based violence, advancing sexual health and reproductive rights or increasing women's political participation, these are the kinds of projects that we're talking about. In fact, we are set to meet that target for this year as well. That remains a top priority for us as a government moving forward.

I would note that one of the projects that I'm quite proud of is the women's voice and leadership program. This came about because of conversations that the previous minister and I had when I was parliamentary secretary. We were travelling and visiting partners around the world and hearing specifically from women's rights organizations and women's rights activists saying that they were doing incredible and difficult work, but didn't have the funding to back them up.

Fast-forward three, four and five years and we now have women's voice in leadership programs in over 30 countries and are supporting hundreds of women's rights activists. When I was in the Democratic Republic of Congo earlier this year, I had an opportunity to meet with some of the women's rights activists who Minister Bibeau met with when she was in Kinshasa in 2017. They expressed their gratitude for being part of this program and for the fact that a Canadian minister travelled to Kinshasa, heard their concerns, listened and acted upon them. Now they were being supported by Canada to do their really important work.