Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 24th, 2020

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you.

Thanks to the minister for being here.

Minister, in October Russia used a chemical weapon to poison opposition leader Alexei Navalny. My colleague raised it in the House, but I just wanted to give you an opportunity to speak about it today. I'm wondering if Canada will join our allies and impose the Magnitsky sanctions on the government officials responsible for poisoning the opposition leader.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Diotte, thank you for asking that question. You probably remember that Canada was one of the countries, with Germany, that asked for a G7 statement very strongly when novichok was used. Certainly I've been at the forefront. You know as well that we're looking to amend the chemical weapons treaty to make sure that novichok will be part of that, and we will continue. I think our colleagues in Germany have said that they don't want to make that a bilateral issue. They want that to be a multilateral issue.

I think we should all be concerned. It is abhorrent to see that states would be using chemical weapons against civilians. That is why at the time, in conjunction with our German colleagues, I did call for the G7 to stand up and speak up, which we did. I think you've seen throughout the year that Canada is doing a bit more, consistently, whether with the European Union, whether with the G7, or whether with the Five Eyes. Certainly we'll continue to do so and speak with one strong voice when we see egregious violations like that of international law.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thanks for that.

It was interesting; in your opening remarks you talked about the free press being essential to a free society. I appreciate that, because I was a journalist for 30 years myself. Increasingly, we're seeing the threat against free society and freedom of information coming from big tech companies via the Internet, whether it's search engine results or outright blocking of news stories. There has been a lot of discussion about that and a lot of potential for foreign interference in elections, etc.

What is Canada doing to fight against that threat?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would agree with you that democracy and its values and processes and institutions are under threat in many, many parts of the world. That's why, with the United Kingdom, you see that we were there for the media freedom conference, of which we were co-chair.

I can tell you, Mr. Diotte, that the issue of state and non-state actor interference in our democratic societies—with disinformation, with an infodemic or whatever you want to call it, with cyber-threats—is always top of mind when I talk to my colleagues. It is clearly top of mind when I talk with the Five Eyes. We talk with colleagues in Europe as well.

I would say that Canada is very much engaged. You will remember the G7 quick response mechanism that was put in place in Charlevoix to deal with that. We're looking with the Baltic countries. As you know, there's a NATO centre. A number of things are being looked at to make sure we can face that threat together. That's also something NATO is looking at, because we know that the work you did before is essential to maintain democracy.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I appreciate that answer, but again, the threat is not so much coming from secret actors; it's very much out in the open. It's the power of the tech giants. Some officials and some critics seem to be saying that maybe it's time to break them up, because they have too much power. Is that something Canada would consider pushing for?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think as part of international discussions, there are different.... You referred to the big tech companies. At the OECD, as you know, there are a number of discussions going on with respect to the taxation of digital giants. There are other discussions going on in the world. What I was referring to were the ones we're also very much concerned with, as you've seen. Even CSE in Canada has been referring to that in its latest reports—when it singled out Russia, for example.

This is a threat we take very, very seriously. If this committee has a study to do, I'd certainly be willing to listen to you and your colleagues on that.

[Kerry Diotte, Conservative, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

I have just a very quick question.

Congrats on getting so many people back when they were forced, obviously, to come back in the pandemic. I did have a lot of trouble trying to get through to Global Affairs at one point. I'm just wondering what you would do to prevent that from happening if we came to a situation where it's “Come on back to Canada; we have another lockdown.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Give a very brief answer, please, Minister.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would just say that I apologize if you had trouble. As you know, we staffed our watch centre, and I think at peak we had 600 people. In normal times, I think it's about 10. We had about two million emails and one million phone calls—or the reverse, I can't remember which one. That is just to say that the volumes we had, Mr. Diotte, were unprecedented.

The good thing is that we've learned from that. We trained many more consular officials and, with the deputy, who has been doing an amazing job, I think if it ever comes to that again we have trained far more employees of Global Affairs to all jump in to be consular officials to provide the best possible service to Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you so much, Minister.

Next we have Ms. Dabrusin for five minutes, please.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for coming and speaking with us today and talking about the importance of multilateralism. It's been good to hear about all the work you're doing.

One of the things I want to talk with you about today is something that has been coming up in question period a lot, and that is our recent vote on Israel and actually on Palestine. I'm raising it because I'm Jewish and have been to Israel a couple of times myself. I am a strong supporter of Israel, and yet I am concerned that there has been a bit of a perspective put out there that says there is a unilateral Jewish point of view on this, instead of the fact that it's a community that in fact has many different points of view on things.

While our community might support Israel wholeheartedly, stand as an ally to Israel and believe very much in the importance of Israel's peace and security, it's not true that everyone would oppose the position that Canada has taken on that vote.

I just wanted to ask you some questions. My first one is pretty basic. Is this the same resolution, essentially, that our country supported in 2019?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Yes.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

All right. Just as a matter of clarity, was this resolution supported by 163 other countries?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I believe so. You may have the count in front of you, Ms. Dabrusin. I think it's about that, out of my memory.

Just to add to what you said, I think the frame is that no one should question that Canada, as you said, has been a steadfast ally and is and will be a friend of Israel and a friend of the Palestinian people. Canada voted in support of this particular resolution as it addresses the core of the issue of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Canada strongly supports, as you said, the international consensus of a two-state solution so that both sides can have a secure and prosperous future.

In that, I think Canada made a principled vote. I have been in touch with Jewish communities across Canada. We have to remember that this particular resolution was to reaffirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination. I have explained that to Jewish communities across Canada. I have been in touch with my Israeli counterpart to explain Canada's position. I think that as a friend of Israel we all want a lasting peace and we all want a two-state solution. I think we've been able to explain that, and we will continue to be the steadfast ally that we have always been.

As every member of this committee knows, overwhelmingly Canada supports Israel, not just at the United Nations, but at all international organizations. In my discussions with my counterpart, I can tell you that we have many bilateral projects that we're pursuing. We talk almost every other week or we exchange...because as I said, now you do diplomacy by text messages. We are probably as close as two ministers of foreign affairs have ever been between Canada and Israel, and it will continue.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

That's great to hear, because I think it is important to have that strong relationship.

I want to also, though, go to a point, because when I hear some of the questions, it gives the impression that there has been a tremendous change. But the view that Palestinians have a right to self-determination and the two-state solution being the one that is the best for peace in the region, is that not the same Canadian policy that was under former prime ministers Harper, Martin and Chrétien?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Sure.

You can be a steadfast ally as Canada is of Israel, and at the same time reaffirm, in a resolution, the right of the Palestinian people for self-determination. We all want a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East, and having a Palestinian state living side by side with Israel where both peoples can live in security, dignity, and safety. I think you will see Canada doing even more with Israel. That's why, when we explained that position, it was understood.

We will continue to be, as you mentioned, Ms. Dabrusin, the steadfast ally that Israel would expect from Canada, and we have demonstrated that time and time again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you so much, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin.

I now give the floor to Mr. Bergeron for two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you once again, Minister.

I think we are all focused on making the case for multilateralism.

We have lately gone through a number of crises involving the international community, be it directly or not. For example, let's think of the crisis in Nagorno-Karabakh.

I would now like to talk to you about a Latin American crisis—that of the Bolivian election.

According to the Organization of American States, Evo Morales's election was tainted, and that led to his overthrow and a new election, which brought to power a successor leading the same party. An MIT study casts doubt on the OAS's findings and rather concludes that Mr. Morales would have actually won the election.

Did Canada support the OAS's findings on the Bolivian election or did it hold back, especially in light of the results of the MIT study?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

As you have seen, I did take action after the election.

Canada certainly followed, with the Organization of the American States, the audit engagement that was launched. We will definitely continue to work with the OAS. That is something we are currently looking at, Mr. Bergeron, and I'm happy you brought up this issue. It is true that democracy has taken a bit of a step back in many Latin American countries Canada has a good relationship with. We will certainly continue to follow this matter. We are now analyzing the audit report that was presented, and we are certainly being careful. I think you used the right words.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Caution is needed, especially since people may feel that a democratically elected president has been overthrown. Fortunately enough, it seems that the new election brought the same party to power, but the fact remains that a president currently in exile in Argentina should perhaps still be in power.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

I'm sorry, Mr. Bergeron.

We'll have to leave it here.

You may have an opportunity to come back to this later.

The next round goes to Mr. Harris, for two and a half minutes, please.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I would like to ask a few quick questions, given the two and a half minutes.

I understand that Canada is going to spend additional money on non-proliferation, arms control and disarmament. However, we have not yet signed on to the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons, which recently received the required 50 signatories and notifications to allow it to be enforced under international law.

When will Canada join the international community in signing this treaty?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Harris, for a very important question.

Canada, unequivocally, supports global nuclear disarmament. We've been committed to the work that will take concrete steps toward a nuclear-free world. Like all of our NATO allies, Canada supports the treaty of non-proliferation of nuclear weapons as the cornerstone of the international non-proliferation and disarmament architecture.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Well, that's a step in the right direction. However, this is a treaty that bans nuclear weapons, and I think it's time for Canada to sign on.

You mentioned in your remarks that we need to support the most vulnerable people in world populations with respect to the COVID-19 situation, and then talked about Canada being a good friend of the Palestinian people.

Is the government prepared to respond to the request about the desperate situation of the UNRWA, the United Nations commission for refugees in Palestine? They are in a very desperate situation, unable to pay their employees, and need to be able to support the needs for medical assistance for Palestinians during this crisis.

Is that something your government is prepared to respond to, increasing our aid and dealing with the emergency now facing the Palestinian people?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Please give a brief answer, Minister.