Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Excellent.

Mr. Morrice, you have two minutes.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, colleagues.

We had multiple academics at the committee last week who shared, from their perspectives, that there's no pathway to a two-state solution unless we recognize that there are two states. Today I heard that from Ms. Kowalski, and I heard from you, Mr. Fogel and Mr. Topas, some conditions you suggest Canada should apply before recognizing two states.

My question to you, Mr. Fogel, is this: You mentioned democracy, so should we no longer recognize other states if they're not democratic enough? For example, is Eritrea not a state?

I will ask the same question of Mr. Topas as well, who put forward that we must first establish structures for effective governance before we recognize the Palestinian state.

[Shimon Koffler Fogel]

I don't believe I suggested that democracy itself is a criterion. I was suggesting putting into place civil society institutions that would allow for good, sustainable governments. They are necessary ingredients in order to have high confidence that the state will be able to withstand the pressures that every state around the globe is subject to and will be able to endure even though those pressures will come to bear.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Go ahead, Mr. Topas.

[Henry Topas]

If any state that wishes to be formed has as the basis for that formation an act whereby its citizens, including UNRWA employees, go in and burn, rape, mutilate and butcher people, I don't think it's quite yet ready.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Topas, Mr. Fogel, and Ms. Kowalski. We are very grateful for your perspectives and your time.

That concludes the questions.

We will suspend for four minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We will resume our study of a two-state solution.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses. We're grateful to have them with us here today.

From the Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East, we have Mr. Michael Bueckert, who's the vice-president.

From the Coalition of Canadian Palestinian Organizations, we have Mr. Mohamad Awad, who's the coordinator.

We're also grateful to have Mr. Corey Balsam from Independent Jewish Voices Canada. He is the national coordinator.

You will each have an opportunity to provide five minutes of opening remarks, after which the members will have an opportunity to ask you questions.

If we could start off with Mr. Bueckert, you have the floor.

You have five minutes, but if you see my signal, it means you really have to try to summarize your comments and wrap it up within 20 seconds.

Thank you, Mr. Bueckert. The floor is yours.

[Michael Bueckert, Vice President, Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East]

Thank you to the Chair, and thank you to the committee for the invitation.

This study has been focused on the question of whether Canada should recognize the State of Palestine. We believe that it should do so immediately. While recognition would not automatically end Israel's unlawful occupation of Palestine, it would strengthen the ability of Palestinians to seek justice in international forums, including the UN General Assembly or the International Criminal Court.

Over 145 countries already recognize Palestine, including European countries such as Ireland, Spain and Norway. Canada can and should follow their lead without delay.

However, I want to talk more broadly about what Canada can do to advance Palestinian self-determination, especially in light of the recent advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice. I want to emphasize that I'm talking about self-determination and not necessarily a two-state solution. This is because it would be irresponsible not to mention the widespread and growing belief that Israel has deliberately killed the possibility of creating a viable and independent Palestinian state.

Israel's actions on the ground are explicitly intended to prevent the creation of a state and to guarantee Israeli domination on a permanent basis, while Israel's parliament overwhelmingly voted against the idea of a Palestinian state, in principle, ever. In this context, we need to be open to the possibility that a two-state solution may already be dead and that self-determination may have to be advanced through other means—for example, through a single shared democratic state in which all peoples have full equality.

To be sure, this is not a question for my organization to decide, nor for the Canadian government to dictate. It is up to Palestinians themselves. This much is clear: To advance Palestinian self-determination, whether that ultimately involves one state or two, Canada must impose meaningful pressure on Israel to force an end to its illegal control over Palestinian lives and territory.

The ICJ, in its recent opinion, found that Israel's presence in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza is illegal and must end as rapidly as possible. The ICJ was clear that the right of Palestinians to self-determination is inalienable and cannot be subject to the conditions of the occupying power. In other words, Israel does not get a veto over Palestinian freedom. Canada cannot continue to allow Israel to use non-existent negotiations as a justification for denying Palestinians their basic rights as a people.

We've heard it said repeatedly by committee members that Canada supports a two-state solution, but I don't actually believe this is true. This is because long-standing Canadian policy has contributed to, and profited from, Israel's illegal takeover of Palestinian territory. In many ways, Canada is still wearing the rose-coloured glasses of the Oslo period in the mid-1990s when there was this false optimism that peace talks would give rise to a two-state solution. During this period, Canada ended its arms embargo against Israel, which had been imposed under the Mulroney government. Canada also signed a free trade agreement with Israel, which was extended to all territories under Israeli control, including settlements in occupied Palestine.

There was a belief that these gestures would serve as a peace dividend that would encourage the Israeli government to complete the process. However, rather than promote peace, this failed approach has incentivized Israel to double down on its annexationist agenda. Israel instead accelerated its illegal and colonial activities, more than tripling the number of settlements and killing tens of thousands of Palestinians in the subsequent period.

For the last three decades, Canada's pro-Israel policies have given the green light for Israel to consolidate its permanent control over Palestine and to cement a system of apartheid over millions of people. Even today, Canada clings to this anachronistic approach, which has utterly failed to bring us any closer to ending Israel's illegal presence in Palestine. It has only demonstrated to Israel's leaders that there will be no consequences for defying international law. Not even Israel's acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza have been enough to push Canada to hold Israeli leaders accountable.

In order to break from this shameful pattern of impunity and to comply with Canada's obligations as outlined by the ICJ, meaningful economic pressure is needed, including sanctions. At a minimum, these measures should include a comprehensive two-way arms embargo using the Special Economic Measures Act, the suspension of the Canada-Israel Free Trade Agreement, a ban on trade with settlements, and sanctions on Israeli political and military leaders.

It is more urgent than ever for Canada to use every tool available to safeguard the rights of the Palestinian people.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Bueckert.

We next go to Mr. Awad.

Welcome. You have five minutes.

[Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Through the clerk, thank you to the committee for allowing me the opportunity to testify here today.

My name is Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad. I'm Canadian born and I grew up in Palestine. I'm the coordinator of the Coalition of Canadian Palestinian Organizations, which has 26 organizations from coast to coast to coast.

I would like to preface my submission today by giving my honest opinion of the nature of this study.

All of us here have heard about the two-state solution. Canada states it believes in the two-state solution, but the reality is that there is one state that has been unilaterally recognized without forming a committee, without forming a study and without doing anything.

I will go on to say the feeling I have is that we are gathered here to provide hope in these dark times that we all face. It's hope that the Palestinian people are in such dire need of right now, more than ever, because this hope is fading. The two-state solution is dying. The Palestinian people have been failed several times, more and more by the international community and, unfortunately, by Canada as well.

We cannot honestly discuss the recognition of Palestine without going back 75 or 76 years to talk about the Nakba. The United Nations said:

The Nakba had a profound impact on the Palestinian people, who lost their homes, their land, and their way of life. It remains a deeply traumatic event in their collective memory and continues to shape their struggle for justice and for their right to return to their homes.

The main question we have here today is this: Should Canada recognize Palestine or not? Should Canada recognize Palestine now or wait until later? Do we believe in international law?

The ICJ, the International Court of Justice, in its July 19, 2024, ruling found that Israel's occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is unlawful. If we believe in that court and we believe in international law, this is what our obligation and responsibility are. The court said:

The Court considers that the violations by Israel of the prohibition of the acquisition of territory by force and of the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination have a direct impact on the legality of the continued presence of Israel, as an occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The sustained abuse by Israel of its position as an occupying Power, through annexation and an assertion of permanent control over the Occupied Palestinian Territory and continued frustration of the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, violates fundamental principles of international law and renders Israel’s presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory unlawful.

What do we have to do? This presence in the West Bank is unlawful. The International Court of Justice says it's unlawful. What is Canada's responsibility? How can you correct this unlawfulness? If there is anybody on this committee who can tell me there is another way without recognizing Palestine, please tell me.

Regarding the argument around the peace process, unfortunately, the ICJ has debunked the message that Canada presented at the ICJ, which was that it should be through a final peace process negotiation. As Canada, as a leader in the world, we are in the position today that our message is not being heard at the ICJ.

Our position today is that we lag behind 147 countries that have already recognized Palestine. Of the 20 countries of the G20, nine have recognized Palestine and five of the NATO allies have recognized Palestine. We are sitting here, saying we should be doing this. The question is, when are we going to do it?

Are we going to wait through another 75 years of negotiations?

Since the time warning has been raised at me, I would like to thank you all. I hope the outcome of this exercise will be a correction and our doing the right thing for the Palestinian people.

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Awad.

We next go to Mr. Balsam.

You have five minutes, sir.

[Corey Balsam, National Coordinator, Independent Jewish Voices Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee, for this opportunity to present before you today.

Independent Jewish Voices is a national organization with members and local chapters across Canada and Quebec. In our diversity, we come together as Jews to pursue a just, peaceful and dignified future for Palestinian and Israeli peoples and against all forms of racism, including anti-Semitism and anti-Palestinian racism.

While we gather today, it bears emphasizing that the Palestinian people are facing what has now been widely deemed a genocide in Gaza. The situation in northern Gaza was further described by the heads of prominent UN agencies just a few days ago as “nothing short of apocalyptic.” As Jews and Canadians, we are driven by the post-Holocaust edict of “never again”. To us, that unequivocally means never again for anyone.

We are likewise motivated by Jewish values, in particular the unyielding pursuit of justice. I personally lived among Palestinians in the occupied West Bank for several years and can attest to the grave injustices experienced there, and also to the warmth and kind-hearted nature of the Palestinian people.

Mr. Chair, we cannot allow the status quo to continue, and I say this for the benefit of all people in Palestine and Israel.

For far too long, successive Canadian governments have repeated Canada's foreign policy position of supporting a two-state solution while neglecting to take virtually any meaningful action to attain this objective. On the contrary, Canada has been deeply complicit, particularly with Israel's efforts to establish “facts on the ground” in the form of illegal Jewish Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza—and perhaps soon again in Gaza, which will serve to ultimately block the creation of a Palestinian state.

In direct contradiction of Canada's official discourse and Security Council resolution 2334, Canada has refused to differentiate among its trade dealings with Israel, allowing illegal settlements to benefit from privileged access to Canadian markets. It repeatedly voted against UN resolutions in support of fundamental Palestinian human rights, and continues to.

It has also allowed Canadians to receive tax benefits when supporting charities that act as conduits for often violent settler organizations involved in terrorizing Palestinians, confiscating their land and even blocking aid trucks to Gaza. This is real.

Mr. Chair, it's time for Canada to change course. We believe Canada's recognition of a Palestinian state would constitute an important step toward actualizing the right of Palestinians to self-determination, which Canada acknowledges and which we support.

Of course, it can't stop there. Recognizing Palestinian statehood alone, without taking steps to end our complicity and apply pressure on Israel, would render such a move virtually inconsequential. If Canada is truly serious about supporting a rules-based international order, it must take action now and accompany statehood recognition with concrete action to that end.

The following are our recommendations.

First, take immediate steps to end Canada's complicity in Israeli occupation and the settlement enterprise, as mandated by the recent ICJ decision. To do this, we recommend beginning with an audit of the various ways in which Canadian policy functions, either directly or indirectly, to make Palestinian self-determination and statehood less and less achievable every day, not to mention aiding and abetting the very war crimes Canada claims to oppose.

Second, impose sanctions on Israeli officials and institutions at the highest levels in relation to both the ongoing genocide and the military occupation and settlement project in the West Bank. Canada has begun to sanction a few low-level actors. That is a step forward, but one that is grossly insufficient, given the urgent nature of the situation right now.

Finally, we recommend that Canada retract its adoption of the anti-Palestinian IHRA definition of “antisemitism” included in the handbook released last week, both because of its absolute perversion of the important fight against anti-Semitism and because it has a role in chilling vital advocacy efforts for Palestinian human rights at this critical juncture.

Mr. Chair, the Canadian government has an important role to play in fostering the conditions for viable self-determination for the Palestinian people. We owe it to both Israelis and Palestinians to help create a future in which all peoples in the region can live in peace and freedom.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Balsam.

We will now go to questions by the members.

First up is MP Aboultaif. You have four minutes, sir.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to all the witnesses this morning.

Peace in the Middle East means peace to the world. This has had a long history. We all hope that Canada remains in place as one of the main players to promote peace and security in many places in the world, and specifically in the Middle East. It's difficult to hear Canada being blamed for being on the shortfall of providing any support. Canada put in a lot of resources to support the Palestinian Authority after the Oslo negotiation.

The question is this: What are the conditions necessary for long-standing peace with the region? I'll give the opportunity to all three of you to answer. I'll start with Mr. Balsam and then go to Mr. Awad and Mr. Bueckert.

Please go ahead.

[Corey Balsam]

Thank you for the question.

As basic conditions, I think we need to see a recognition of everyone's human rights and everyone's humanity in the region. I think Canada taking a position to recognize Palestinian self-determination and to recognize the Palestinian state so that there can be more genuine negotiations between those parties would go a long way, as would, of course, taking steps to pursue justice, including addressing the settlement issue and putting pressure on Israel, especially at this point, to stop its ongoing slaughter in Gaza and in the region.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Awad.

[Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad]

Thank you so much.

I think the first thing that comes to my mind is to uphold international law. We need law to go back to in order to be able to establish peace. If there is a conflict, there is international law and we can resort to it.

I think international law has been missing. That region is skipping it. We need to start working towards applying and implementing international law.

[Michael Bueckert]

I too would say that it's critically important that Canada hold Israel to its obligations before the International Court of Justice to end its occupation as rapidly as possible. This is something that is unconditional. It's not something to be negotiated. It's something that is mandated by the world's top court.

Canada often expresses support for the court, but has not articulated its support for the specific findings of the ICJ. It would be good to see Canada actually say that it expects Israel's occupation to end as soon as possible and to participate in all actions internationally through the UN and others to achieve that.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

We all know that Oslo is probably the closest point where the two sides have sat down to figure out a plan for long-lasting peace. Do you believe Oslo is still a good base to continue on the path forward?

Again, I'll start with you, Mr. Bueckert, and then move this way.

[Michael Bueckert]

Unfortunately, Oslo was supposed to be a temporary period of about five years, after which there would be final negotiations and the creation of a separate Palestinian state. Some of the key issues around the status of Jerusalem and the rights of refugees were kind of put on the back burner to be dealt with in the future, which I think was a mistake.

At the time, there were Palestinian voices saying that this too was unfair. Oslo itself was not offering an actual state but an entity minus a state, as Rabin called it. It would not necessarily have given Palestinians actual sovereignty, but regardless of its prospects at the time, clearly, 30 years later, we're stuck in this transitionary period. It has obviously failed. There has to be a new paradigm. Fortunately, the ICJ has given us a new paradigm to take action right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm sorry. We're out of time, Mr. Bueckert.

We go next to MP Alghabra.

You have four minutes, sir.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here this afternoon to offer their important opinions.

Dr. Awad, I have a couple of questions for you.

Some of the questions that are being asked are about the timing of the recognition. Why change the traditional Canadian policy over the last two decades of waiting until everything is finally negotiated before the recognition of the State of Palestine? Why do you think we should recognize the State of Palestine as quickly as possible?

[Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad]

In my intervention, we were talking about our responsibility toward international law. Today, the more we wait, the more hope is lost in the region and even among us, as Canadian Palestinians, in international law.

The number one answer to this question is whether it is the right of the Palestinian people to be recognized. As a Palestinian today, I feel we are long overdue. We have suffered so long. We paid the price for being recognized.

Palestinians are one of the most well-educated people in the Middle East. They deserve to be recognized and be part of the international community. Canada, by delaying this recognition, puts us Palestinians on the table of negotiations, waiting for a negotiation as a sub-element of this negotiation.

If we want to wait for the final state or establishing a government, how do you think the Palestinian people can establish their governance and institutions while under occupation? You cannot work from a village, just as you can't come from Kanata to downtown Ottawa.

I grew up there. I had to go on a donkey to go to my hospital around Jerusalem.

Thank you.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Dr. Awad.

The other question for you is that there is a common point being raised. None of our allies, or very few, have made that step.

Why should we be doing it now? What is your response to that point?

[Dr. Mohamad Abu Awad]

Last week, Japan, which is part of the G7, also started a study to recognize Palestine.

I think, as a Canadian, that we all look to the moment when Mulroney stood up and fought for the rights of the South African people. We take pride in that moment. Today, we need to see that Canada. We need to see Canada take that prime step, be a leader in the world again, lead the G7 in this step and not wait to be second or third.