Foreign Affairs Committee on May 2nd, 2022

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

I will first refer to your mention of Mariupol. The situation in Mariupol is horrible—a city with a population of 400,000. Half of the people have left the city, but there are around 100,000 civilians who remain surrounded by Russian forces. The number of civilians killed in Mariupol is already about 20,000. The humanitarian corridor, as I mentioned yesterday, started with the first 100 people who were taken from Mariupol to Zaporizhzhya. That is the most tragic situation overall.

Odessa and the Odessa seaport are the major export routes, not only for the agri-sector, but also for metallurgy and other sectors where Ukraine was exporting a great deal. Of course, it is strategic for us, and not only for us, but for the global commodity markets that Ukraine needs to control the greater Odessa area, in terms of the seaport. That is why I come back to military aid. The timely delivery of military aid is the way for Ukraine to defend our sovereign territory and access to the seaport.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

It is the supply chain to Odessa now. How much fear is there that this can be disrupted by any Russian operation, at any time?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

First of all, the Ukrainian railway is working. Inside the country, the logistics work, with some disruptions and breaches. In general, the railway system works, which is the main route to take throughout the country to the seaports. That part is working now. There were some major targeted breakdowns, but in general it works.

With the seaports, there is the situation of the mining of the seaports. That is another challenge. We will work further with our allies on the mining. In general, the key for the export facility is to control and preserve the access to the seaports.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Aboultaif.

Ms. Bendayan, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Your Excellency, for being here today. It is truly an honour to welcome you to our committee. I think it speaks to the importance of the work that the foreign affairs committee has been doing for some time now. The situation was indeed a priority for our government members well before the invasion. As you may know, we put forward a motion as a matter of urgency and began studying this matter in this committee in early February.

I don't believe it's trite to once again repeat that Ukraine is fighting not only for its own sovereignty and democracy but indeed for the democracy of all countries, and that includes Canada. I would also like to thank you for recognizing, as you did in your introduction a few moments ago, Canada's unwavering support to Ukraine. You mentioned in particular our economic support but also the shipments of lethal and non-lethal weapons. I think that's important to highlight along with the recent announcement for the provision of howitzers and additional ammunition, and the $500 million that was included in our government's budget, which, to your point just now, will also go for the provision of weapons. I do hope, given your call to action to us today, that this budget will pass very quickly.

I also believe that it's important to underscore the extraordinary community work being done on the ground across Canada, including in my riding. I'd like to tell everyone here that Sandra Ezril, who runs the Terrasse Royale hotel in Montreal, recently opened the doors of her establishment to Ukrainians, absolutely free of charge, to help these newcomers.

In your presence, Your Excellency, I would also like to recognize Katherine Smolynec from my community. She is the president of the Ukrainian National Federation in Montreal. Just this weekend, she welcomed Ukrainians seeking safety in our country.

On this topic of civilians trying to reach safety through humanitarian corridors, I would like you to comment on the situation at the moment. It is my understanding that Russia is repeatedly bombing and attacking the safety of our humanitarian corridors in Ukraine. How would you describe the current situation of these humanitarian corridors, speaking in particular, as you just did, of the situation that is absolutely devastating in Mariupol?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

I will start by saying that just before this meeting, I was in Montreal. I came back from there just 15 minutes before the meeting. We feel and we see how much across Canada—in Montreal, in Toronto, in all of the cities and towns, and everywhere—Canadians support Ukrainians who are coming here.

In terms of the humanitarian corridors, as I mentioned, around 50% of all scheduled humanitarian corridors have not taken place. Russians are violating the agreed-to humanitarian corridors. In cities like Mariupol and others that have been circulated, there is limited access or possibility to deliver essentials like food, health care and water. For those cities that have been liberated, a network has already been quickly established on the ground to supply these humanitarian needs. The quickest and best way to deliver humanitarian needs is through Ukrainian Railways. This is a state-owned company. They are now delivering all the humanitarian aid free of charge for everybody, whether it is international organizations or civil society or volunteers who would like to deliver this support.

There are already established humanitarian hubs in our neighbouring countries, such as Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia and others, for all the humanitarian support that's coming from European countries, from Canada, the U.S. and all over the world. These are the points where this humanitarian support is delivered and then delivered throughout all of the country in a quick and timely way.

The big difference, and what we are now trying to work on with international humanitarian organizations, is that contrary to other humanitarian crises, Ukraine already has its own resources, speed and courage to deliver humanitarian support within the country. There is already an established network of delivering this support. The only need for us is the physical supply or this list of humanitarian support. We are working closely with GAC on all of the requests that the Ukrainian government is asking our partners for in order to find a way in which we can deliver this humanitarian support to Ukraine. We also appreciate Canadian companies in the private sector.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Your Excellency.

In the short time I have left, I would like to come back to the topic of returning the Canadian embassy to Ukraine. I would like to quote the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who said this before the Senate:

It is clearly the goal of the Government of Canada to reopen its embassy in Ukraine. We are looking at different scenarios right now, and my objective is to do so in the coming days and coming weeks. We [just] need to make sure there is a secure environment for our staff.

I would like to get your comment on how important it is for Ukraine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Excellency, give a very brief answer, please, in the interest of time.

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

Yes.

It is important.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Ms. Bendayan.

Mr. Bergeron, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to go into greater depth on Ms. Bendayan's question.

I'd like to begin by thanking the ambassador-designate and the chargé d'affaires, both of whom we know very well, for being here with us today to give us the benefit of their comments.

A number of countries, including Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, the European Union, France, Italy, Poland, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey and the United Kingdom have maintained or returned their embassy to Kyiv. The United States is considering doing so in May.

I know just how important this is to our Ukrainian friends, but what security considerations might still be used by Canada to avoid doing what the other allies have done? Is Ukraine in a position to provide Canada with any guarantees about the safety of staff who would be working in Kyiv?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

As I mentioned in my speech, when the Secretary-General of the UN was visiting Kyiv, Russians had missile attacks on a civilian building where a journalist was killed. The only guarantee for the protection of civilians, which I will come back to one more time, is prompt military aid to Ukraine.

Of course, ensuring diplomatic ties and having the people on the ground is important to further work. However, I would like to say that we are now in very close co-operation and contact with GAC. We are working here on the ground with GAC in Ottawa and with the Canadian embassy in Ukraine and in different locations. In terms of guarantees, as I mentioned, only significant increased military aid is the best guarantee that can be provided as of today.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

As for military aid, Canada supplied M777 howitzers and ammunition. Carl-Gustaf anti-tank munitions were also sent.

What precisely is expected? Without going into details, can you tell us what Canada is expected to do in the short term?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

As you've seen, this support makes a big difference on the ground, and what is important is that Ukraine is already using NATO standard ammunition. That makes Ukrainian forces more successful on the ground.

In terms of further military support, we are in close co-operation and working on a permanent basis to meet the needs. These needs are now being coordinated with all of the allies, and that is now a matter only of timing of the deliveries and the coordination, which is happening on a 24-7 basis. I would call it like this.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you very much.

When six Ukrainian colleagues came to speak to us in the House of Commons, they told us that to date, only seven of about 300 Russian banks were being sanctioned and disconnected from the international SWIFT system. This would appear to indicate that there are many workarounds for the Russian companies and oligarchs who want to continue to operate through the other Russian banks.

Do you think it will be necessary to extend the sanctions to all Russian banks or at least to many more of them, as well as to other Russian institutions, and to disconnect them from the international SWIFT system?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

Yes, disconnecting all Russian banks from SWIFT is another way of getting Russia to have limited or zero access to all the financial markets and foreign currencies. We are in close contact with GAC on the sanction list, and as you see each week or even more often the sanction list is being increased. This is also coordinated with our other allies and partners, and yes, increasing the list of Russian banks that are disconnected from SWIFT is crucially important.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

We have sanctioned a number of Russian oligarchs, but some of them continue to elude Canadian sanctions. Based on what you have told us, Mr. Abramovich is sanctioned in a number of NATO countries, but not yet in Canada, probably because of his strong economic ties.

Once again, do you think that the list of oligarchs sanctioned by Canada should be extended to others, including Mr. Abramovich?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Just a very brief answer, please.

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

As I've mentioned, we are closely working with GAC on the list of sanctions of personal and legal entities, and this list is enlarged from week to week. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you so much.

Ms. McPherson, please, for six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank both of you for being here today. This has been very informative. Thank you for the work that you're doing. I think the entire global community is seeing what is happening in Ukraine. We see the Ukrainian people as heroes. We see what they are doing. We see how they are fighting for their sovereignty. As my colleague, Mr. Aboultaif, has said, we stand with the people of Ukraine.

I'd like to follow with some questions, following my colleague Mr. Bergeron, regarding the sanctions. Having a robust list of sanctions is very important, of course, and I would suggest that perhaps it could have been implemented and rolled out quicker than it has been, but there are a number of people in the sanctions and it is quite comprehensive. My worry is that the sanctions are not being enforced, that they are not robustly being defended. We have not been able to get any information about any assets seized by the Canadian government through the sanctions. I'm just wondering if you could talk about how we can make sure the sanctions are more robustly defended, more robustly enforced, so that those assets that should be used to help rebuild Ukraine are available.

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

Thank you.

As for sanctions, most of the sanctions imposed in terms of the assets that have been frozen or forbidden are from a specific list of activities that could be done with the sanctions.

As for seizure of the assets, the draft law that has been presented by the Government of Canada to Parliament is the instrument that is establishing this instrument of the seizure of frozen sanctioned assets, and we do believe that these assets should be the biggest portion of the future rebuilding fund of Ukraine.

Supporting this legislation is the practical instrument that will allow the seizure of Russian assets in Canada and also make an example for other countries to follow.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I'm worried that some of those assets have already been hidden and moved before the sanctions were put in place. We have heard reports of that.

The other piece I want to ask you about a bit is the crimes against humanity, the war crimes and the crimes of genocide against the Ukrainian people by the Russian Federation, and Canada's support for the International Criminal Court.

First of all, what are those pieces that Ukraine requires from Canada right now to ensure that there is the gathering of evidence and the reporting, and that the forensics are in place? Can you talk a bit about what Canada can do to support Ukraine at this time?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

First of all, Canada has already done its donation to the international infrastructure that will support Ukraine in collecting evidence and also in presenting the case to the International Criminal Court. There are a lot of international teams on the ground now in Ukraine that support the Ukrainian law enforcement agencies in taking the evidence of those crimes. Our general prosecutor's office is leading this process of collecting the evidence.

There is already some technical support that we asked the Government of Canada to provide. Mainly, that is tools and instruments, the DNA equipment and forensic equipment to get this evidence and the proof of the evidence. We are now working on it. This process is now actively proceeding with all of the partners, including Canada.