Foreign Affairs Committee on May 2nd, 2022

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's wonderful.

One of the things that we have heard reports of that is particularly.... I mean, there are so many horrifying stories coming out of Ukraine right now, but in one of the stories we have heard, the example is that of children being abducted and taken to Russia. Can you give us any more information about that, please?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

There are a lot of cases that we document as kidnappings, because these are the children who are forcefully taken from those territories that are now temporarily occupied by Russian forces. There is evidence that these children are now located throughout all of Russia, including Siberia and Vladivostok, hundreds of kilometres from the Ukrainian border. They were taken with evidence that it was without their will, without their parents and without any proper process or documents.

These are pure kidnapping activities that Russia is doing now. We are trying, with our partners, to find these children, and I can assure you that the Ukrainian government will find—and will do their best possible to find—and bring back all of the Ukrainian children.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's heartbreaking, just atrocious, and now we are seeing the attacks on the humanitarian corridors.

There's one thing that I would like to finish off with, if I could. I'd like to take a moment to honour two of the volunteers who have been helping in Edmonton. Thomas Lukaszuk and Ed Stelmach have been trying to send medical aid to Ukraine.

I just want to take a moment to acknowledge the two volunteers who were delivering that aid to Ukraine over the weekend and lost their lives due to an attack by Russians. I want to express my deep sadness for their family and loved ones.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Ms. McPherson, thank you very much.

Colleagues, we can go to a second round. I think we have just slightly less than 20 minutes in our scheduled time. If colleagues agree, we would go to four-minute and two-minute rounds in the second round. That will take us right up to about one o'clock or maybe a couple of minutes past.

If that's agreeable, we will start with Mr. Genuis, please, for four minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much, Your Excellency, for your important words. I think you know there is a great connection felt between the people of Canada and the people of Ukraine. This obviously leads us to expressing solidarity, but it's important that we, as leaders, be pushed to go beyond expressions of solidarity and take the concrete actions required to offer concrete support. I do want to say that my riding is a hub for the Ukrainian community in Canada. I hope that, during happier times, you'll be able to visit.

Speaking of visits, 11 prime ministers have visited Kyiv, by my count, since the start of the most recent invasion, as well as various senior U.S. officials and the UN Secretary-General. Could you speak a bit more to the importance of Canada? What would the specific impact be if a Canadian minister were to visit Ukraine, and are there plans for a Canadian minister, or for the Prime Minister or foreign minister, to visit?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Your Excellency, just before you answer, I'm going to hit pause.

Colleagues, we have a bell. I'm assuming this is a half-hour bell. Normally, we extend by unanimous consent for 15 additional minutes. I'm wondering if colleagues would be amenable to extending until 1:05. That should take us through the round as I've outlined.

Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Okay, let's go until 1:05.

Your Excellency, please continue.

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

The support that Canada provided before the war, and has provided especially during these two months of full-scale Russian war, is unprecedented and on a different level. I've talked to many mayors of cities, members of Parliament and members of the Senate. It is everywhere on the street, and we appreciate the joint support of Canada's variety of communities as they stand with Ukraine.

We also see that the whole world is standing with Ukraine. Yet even with that support, since the situation began in Ukraine, it's still challenging. The missile attacks are everywhere—they are in Lviv, 50 kilometres from the NATO border of Poland. The matter of a visit is an issue for security staff and of security roles. Yes, we are working on a variety of visits to Ukraine, on both the government and Parliament levels.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

I thought your comment was interesting when you made a point of saying that this is not a one-man show on the Russian side, and you cited opinion polls. Of course, it's difficult to know how much stock to put in those opinion polls. We are seeing, I think, some evidence of meaningful fissures within the Russian regime, and maybe some strategically relevant levels of disobedience.

I would appreciate your reflections on those fissures—on what you're seeing on the ground in terms of possible disobedience within the Russian army, and desertion, and the impacts of those. Could you also speak to similar issues in the context of Belarus? Are we seeing increasing levels of resistance from the Belarusian people toward what is effectively the occupation of their country and the use of it by the Russian army? What is your level of coordination with the pro-democracy movements in Belarus and Russia?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

As I mentioned, the latest polls in Russia show significant support: something like 74% of people support this war, and it is on all levels throughout the country. This is what the Russian regime, and a total lack of democratic procedures established in Russia in the last 15 years.... In comparison to Ukraine, which is a democratic country with free elections, a free press and an active civil society...Russia does not have these instruments. This is one of the things that afforded Putin the chance to provide this kind of war. These—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

With apologies, let's leave it there, because we have very tightly timed allocations for this final round.

Thank you very much, and you're free to explore your answer in a response to a subsequent question.

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'll let you know that you could submit answers in writing as well. If there is any additional information for any question, you could submit it in writing to the committee.

Thank you.

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Oliphant, please go ahead, for four minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Your Excellency.

There are two things that I want to begin with. We are always attempting to make Canada's support for Ukraine a non-partisan issue. We think it is critical—and I know there will always be barbs from the opposition—that the more that we do as Canadians to support Ukraine, the better we, as Canada, will be and the better Ukraine will be.

The second thing is I think we can unanimously agree that we should push the government to quickly get you accredited, because your leadership is needed in Canada, as well as in Ukraine. We'll do our part and get you going. It's very good to have you in Canada.

You used the word “barbaric” earlier. I would say that Canadians have been shocked. This is the 21st century, yet the war being waged by Russia against Ukraine is nothing like it should be in the 21st century. It shouldn't be happening, of course, but it feels like an ancient war, where civilians and infrastructure are targeted, and there is an aggression that we have not seen—that I have not seen in my lifetime. Canada will continue to stand in solidarity.

As we do that—I'm building on what Ms. McPherson said about the International Criminal Court—there is also the International Court of Justice. Canada very quickly supported Ukraine at the International Court of Justice. These are just the first two activities.

Could you say a bit about that early intervention by Ukraine to go to the ICJ?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

In terms of the old war crimes and going to the ICJ, we are now collecting all the evidence. There is already a big group of experts, including internationally recognized lawyers and activists for human rights, and this group is now working closely with all of the law enforcement agencies and international partners to make a case.

This is now in progress. As the case is presented, there will be horrific documented evidence of the war crimes. I think they are the worst in the current century.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

On that, if Canada.... We're not unique in this, but if we have one particular focus, it is women and girls. We have a strong concern with a feminist foreign policy, as well as gender-based violence and those things. The horrible stories of women being subjected to rape, sexual violence and horrendous activities are something that Canada is very concerned about.

Is there anything you think Canada should be doing right now in attempting to get Russia to cease this? Going forward, how will we call Russia to account?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

You are right. These horrific war crimes include sexual war crimes. The horror is that children are victims of the sexual crimes, which are committed under their parents' eyes. We share that sexual crimes are part of the Russian weapons against Ukrainians.

We are now working to establish a separate track for studies investigating and documenting the sexual crimes against women and children that have happened and that we have witnessed in Bucha, Irpin and other cities throughout the country.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Over to you for two minutes, Mr. Bergeron.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We also have a list of oligarchs' names, provided to this committee by the chief of staff of the Russian dissident who is currently in prison. The government keeps saying that it is looking at the list and that it plans to broaden the sanctions to also include these people.

You've told us that you are in contact with Global Affairs Canada about the list of companies and individuals who are to be sanctioned. A few moments ago, we talked about Russian banks. Do you have any information or hearsay to indicate that the list could soon be extended with a view to ramping up pressure on Russia's economy?

[Yuliia Kovaliv]

Let me say that with regard to the sanctions, they should be widespread and the timing and not announcing too much are important so that people who will be sanctioned will not pull their assets out of the country.

The second thing is that already Ukraine has made public the list of companies and people who are under the sanctions in different jurisdictions. You can see the big significant list of companies and people, and you can watch which countries have already sanctioned them and which have not. If that is of interest to you, we can share this big database showing the public sanctions with the members of Parliament for you to follow.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Your Excellency.

Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.

Madam McPherson, go ahead, please, for two minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That would be very interesting if you wouldn't mind sharing that with the committee.

I just want to end by asking a few questions about humanitarian aid and how Canada can support Ukraine with humanitarian aid. One of the areas in which I think we sometimes fall down is the recognition of long-term dependable, predictable aid. We know, according to reports, that Ukraine has suffered approximately $600 billion worth of infrastructure damage. What would you like to see the Canadian government commit to? I would like you to speak about that long-term commitment. We know there is an immediate need, but what should the long-term commitment be in terms of humanitarian aid and in terms of helping to rebuild Ukraine?