Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 19th, 2022

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

One of our problems as a democratic liberal democracy is we don't always have the tools to fight that propaganda machine in any way. An analysis of what's going on is important in order for us to have the right tools to do it.

Your husband was very clear that international presence, international persistence and naming is important. Those have been themes he's had.

This question may be to Professor Cotler.

Irwin, I had forgotten I had met Vladimir until you told us about the meeting in 2011. What should Canada be doing in terms of that? We now have Sergei Lavrov saying he will downgrade the western presence of Russia because we're the enemy. We need to speak, we need to be present and we need to name. What do we do and how do we do it?

[Irwin Cotler]

I've just been notified that I must go, so I'll do it quickly with some one-liners in terms of action items.

Number one, Canada led the way on adopting the declaration against arbitrary detention in state-to-state relations. Vladimir is a case study of that. He's a citizen of the U.K. as well as of Russia. We are convening these signatories to that declaration in February. We should use his case as a case study for the mobilization against arbitrary detention.

Number two, we are also co-chairs of the Media Freedom Coalition. Media freedom has been not only silenced but criminalized in Russia, as Evgenia said. We should use our chair and leadership at the Media Freedom Coalition, again with Vladimir's case as a case study.

Number three, in speaking now as a special envoy for the Community of Democracies, I will say that Canada has now just assumed the chair of the executive council of the Community of Democracies. Again, this is an opportunity within that forum of the Community of Democracies to highlight Vladimir's struggle for democracy in Russia and Ukraine and on behalf of all of us.

Number four, with regard to Magnitsky sanctions, I'm glad that Canada's taking the lead in imposing targeted sanctions, but we have to internationalize the Magnitsky sanctions, so we should take leadership in developing a concerted international strategy with regard to Magnitsky sanctions.

Finally, I'll just mention one other thing with regard to Putin's aggression. While there are legal and judicial remedies for war crimes, crimes against humanity and so on, there are not for the crime of aggression. We need to support the establishment of an independent tribunal for the crime of aggression so that Putin and all those who are aiding and abetting in this crime of aggression against the Ukrainian people can be brought to justice.

Thank you.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

You normally have six action items, and you only had five today.

Two and a half extra minutes can go to the NDP and the Bloc.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

We now go to Mr. Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Privyet. Spasiba.

Your testimony tells us that we must be firm and strict in the face of Russian measures. I hope your message will be heard around the world and reach the Russian people. Your bravery does you great honour and I'm touched by it. I can feel the love you have for your people, that drives us to want to take action.

My first thought is for your husband, with some concern for his condition. Is there any way to find out how he is doing? What are his detention conditions? Are you in contact with him? Is there anything more we can do as Quebeckers and as Canadians?

[Evgenia Kara-Murza]

Thank you very much for your question and kind words.

Vladimir is still being held in a detention centre in Moscow awaiting trial. I have not spoken to my husband, nor have I seen him since April. My contact with him is through his lawyer. I am very lucky, because his lawyer is also a family friend. He was Boris Nemtsov's lawyer before he was murdered. After the murder, he worked on his assassination report with Vladimir and Margareta Cederfelt, president of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly. I believe they became friends. I have full confidence in him. I am sure he will do his best on my husband's case.

Of course, the decision about my husband has already been made. Since he has been charged with high treason, he now faces a prison sentence of up to 24 years in a strict regime. I know that the only way my husband could get out of a Russian prison would be if the regime were to collapse. It is my goal to make sure that day comes as soon as possible. That is the purpose of my work and everything I do now.

I call it putting my small nail in the coffin of this regime.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You have all but answered my second question, which sought to know what cause you and your husband are supporting. Therefore, how do you assess how far your voice travels on the international stage and the response of countries like Canada, but also the United States and other superpowers?

[Evgenia Kara-Murza]

Please forgive me, but I'm going to have to answer in English, because I'm afraid I won't find the right words. I want my message to be clearly understood.

I think we all understand that the condition for this region and for all of Europe to be finally at peace with itself and with everyone is that the regime in Russia fall.

There are, in my opinion, three key factors that would bring this day forward, and I'm trying to carry this message everywhere I go.

The first key factor is, of course, Ukraine's victory—Ukraine's victory on Ukraine's terms, which means that every single Russian soldier has to leave the Ukrainian territory, including the illegally occupied zones. Ukraine has shown everyone how resilient they are, how strong they are and how amazing they are in fighting, and not just for themselves. They're not fighting just for themselves: They're fighting for democracy. They're fighting for freedom. It is the quintessential fight of the good against the evil, and I think they deserve all of the help and support. If they need more weapons, they should get more weapons. If they need more humanitarian help, this is what they should get, because they're fighting for all of us, and their fight is admirable.

The second key factor that would bring the downfall of the regime closer is, I believe, sanctions—both economic sanctions, which would cripple Russia's economy and make it more costly for the regime to continue the warmongering, and then targeted personal sanctions, because they target specific individuals implicated in gross human rights violations and they also send a very clear signal to Russian civil society that the global democratic community sees a difference between the regime, which has been oppressing its people, and Russian civil society, which tries to oppose the regime and fight back.

The third key factor, which I already mentioned, is support for Russian civil society, for all those people who find courage to go out and protest and say no to this war, for all those Russian NGOs, Russian journalists and human right activists who were forced to leave the country to be able to continue their very important work from outside.

In my work, I very often rely on the information they can provide. I rely on information that Memorial can provide on political persecution, the number of political prisoners and individual cases. I rely on the information that OVD provides. All of these organizations have their people on the ground, working to provide this information and make it possible for us to carry the message further.

I believe these are the three factors that would bring the downfall of the Putin regime closer. This will make it possible for those Russians who stand up to Putin to make sure that Russia can never be turned into an authoritarian or a totalitarian regime again. This will mean that we will be able to start building that whole and free Europe that all of us want to see.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

My time is up.

I especially thank you for your excellent French and I wish you the best of luck.

Spasiba.

[Evgenia Kara-Murza]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

We now go to Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Kara-Murza.

I know that you do have to leave now, so I won't ask you any questions, but I do want to take a moment to tell you....

You spoke to me on Tuesday. We were able to sit down and talk, and I'm deeply moved by what you've done and your strength. You talked about your husband and his integrity. You spoke of how it's not always easy to live with a man with such integrity, but I look at you and I see somebody with such incredible integrity and strength. To describe yourself as a small nail in the coffin is wrong; you are a giant force that is doing so much for the Russian people.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I know I speak on behalf of all of us when I say that we will continue to raise your husband's name in the House of Commons. We will continue to talk about your husband and all those who are being detained. We will continue to fight for Ukraine and we will continue to fight to make sure that Vladimir Putin cannot continue to oppress the people of Russia.

Thank you.

[Evgenia Kara-Murza]

Thank you so very much for giving me this incredible opportunity to address you all, and thank you very much for all of the insightful questions.

I could talk for hours, because there are so many messages and there is so much rage inside of me because this person has turned my country into a country aggressor. I will keep putting my nail in deep because I will never forgive him for what he has been doing to my family and for what he has been doing to my country. I do very much appreciate all of the help, support and solidarity that I've seen here during my visit.

Thank you so very much.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Ms. Kara-Murza, allow me to say thank you ever so much for your powerful and compelling testimony. You have not only provided us with information about the continued prosecution and persecution of your husband; you have also reminded each and every one of us that we have individual obligations as well as collective obligations.

Much as was underscored by the other members, allow me to say that each of us recognizes full well that we have to continue to stand by you. We have to continue to ensure that our government does work with the Government of the United Kingdom. I certainly look forward to very soon, hopefully, having the honour of having your husband once again in our Parliament.

Thank you very much.

[Voices]

Hear, hear!

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I know that photos aren't allowed in a committee meeting except with unanimous consent. Perhaps you could do a photo, if you have time for a photo, with the members of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Is it agreed unanimously?

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Sure. We can suspend. Perhaps that's the better approach.

We will suspend and go in camera. For members joining us on Zoom, please use the second link that was provided.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, there's an issue that I didn't want to raise in public. Could we come back briefly in public before we go in camera?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We can do that once we come back. In camera you can introduce a motion, right?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes, but it's a substantive issue that should be done in public. Can we just...?

I mean, I'd like to operate by consensus—