Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 26th, 2022

[Tara Carney]

The matching fund mechanism, as it currently stands, is actually built on lessons learned from previous attempts to engage on humanitarian assistance within the Canadian population.

Our goal, when there is a natural disaster, is really to ensure that timeliness of funding reaching the most affected populations on the ground. In order to do this, we need to have a mechanism that is ready to be unrolled more or less at the press of a button, and to actually then, once fundraising is complete, get the money out the door in very short order.

In years past, there were mechanisms that actually allowed for a broader reach of a matching fund, so that there was a broader partnership level of people who were able to donate to organizations. That resulted in significant delays in getting funding out to the people most affected by the crisis, sometimes in fact with money rolling out long past the—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm almost done, but could you share evidence of that with the committee in writing?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid you're out of time, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Just a yes or no—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

It's over six minutes, Mr. Genuis. You're out of time.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I hope you can share some written evidence with the committee on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We'll go to MP Sarai next, for six minutes.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

I'm glad, Mr. Gibbins, that you actually visited there. I have a considerable ask from Pakistani Canadians who are in my riding. They were very concerned, as were many people from the Punjabi diaspora in general who hail from that region.

What I want to know.... We all know it's because of climate change, but to what degree did climate change impact the extent and devastation of the flooding in Pakistan?

This is for anyone.

[Marie-Louise Hannan]

I will turn to my colleague, Christopher, to answer the question.

If I understand correctly, the question is to what extent climate change impacted the flooding.

[Christopher Gibbins, Executive Director, Afghanistan-Pakistan, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

It did, to quite a significant degree. As the opening remarks commented, the increased rainfall was significantly above what has been experienced in the past, and it's increasing. That is also accompanied by the Himalayan glaciers melting, so it's also adding to the downflow. Because of the volume of rainfall, the ground is completely and utterly saturated, which is why there is still so much that remains inundated, and will remain so for quite an extended period.

It's fair to say that climate change was a significant factor. There were other factors, as well. Any country that would receive that much rainfall.... The infrastructure just wasn't able to endure those consequences. That's obviously something that we are, globally, having to address. That was certainly a challenge, and is also a challenge for Pakistan.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

On the same topic of climate change, we know, obviously, that reducing greenhouse emissions will help that, but that's a global thing.

How can Canada help Pakistan on infrastructure to mitigate such damages in the future, whether it's dikes, flood zones, controlled zones or dams?

[Christopher Gibbins]

That question is going to be a huge challenge for international communities, because of the scale of it. As we noted in the opening remarks, the needs assessment is still being undertaken, and we're all awaiting that eagerly. It's being done in close collaboration, review, and finalization with the Government of Pakistan, so it actually aligns with its assessment of what those needs are.

There are a number of global funds to which Canada contributes, which will be able to initially start to address some of those immediate infrastructure challenges. Canada will be very much part of those conversations, whether at the World Bank, the Asian Development Bank, or the IMF.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Do you know if any of Canada's $5.3 billion for international climate finance is being delivered to Pakistan, or if any application for that has been made?

[Christopher Gibbins]

I'm not aware of any applications, but I do know that Pakistan is eligible to apply for those funds. It is definitely one of the countries identified in the top rank eligible in line, in part because of their climate vulnerability.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

On August 17, Minister Joly spoke with Mr. Bilawal Bhutto Zardari. How was the first interaction between the ministers, and how would you describe our bilateral relations between Canada and Pakistan?

[Marie-Louise Hannan]

The interaction was quite friendly. I can report that I was a listener to that call, and it was a very good start to an interaction with her counterpart. In general, we have had relations with Pakistan for well over.... I think we're celebrating 75 years of relations. As two countries that co-operate in a number of forums, we enjoy good, healthy bilateral relations.

We are looking forward to continuing to support Pakistan through this very challenging time that it is experiencing due to the flooding. The world's attention is on Pakistan right now, and we are happy to be supporting Pakistan as a partner and friendly country.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Has Canada thought of sharing technology or engineering tactics?

We have a huge watershed. Canada is built on primarily watershed areas and has dealt with similar types of scenarios, as recently as Abbotsford in British Columbia. On raising village levels or other types of scenarios, has Canada offered to exchange technology on how it can mitigate the risks of flooding in the future, especially to livestock and human and agricultural needs?

[Marie-Louise Hannan]

Mr. Chair, certainly I can confirm that through our trade commissioner service, which is active on the ground in Pakistan, definitely they're engaging with government and the private sector in Pakistan on offering technologies and experience and know-how from Canada that could help to address these challenging areas.

There is always an annual process of determining the target and most useful areas where we could offer some assistance. That is definitely factored into our annual business planning and the priority sectors for engaging and trying to bring the right kind of Canadian expertise to bear on the problems that Pakistan is facing.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, MP Sarai.

We now go to Monsieur Bergeron for six minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being with us to provide us with information about the situation that prevailed and still prevails in Pakistan.

On August 26, 2022, the coalition government of Pakistan declared a national state of emergency in response to the serious flooding. In addition to the ravages caused by the floods, Pakistan has been faced with political instability and an economic crisis since Imran Khan was removed from office after losing a confidence vote in April 2022.

My question is very simple.

How may the floods have exacerbated political instability and the economic crisis? And vice versa, how may the economic crisis and political instability in Pakistan have interfered with operations to deal with the floods?

[Marie-Louise Hannan]

Mr. Chair, the Government of Canada is obviously well aware of the economic and political challenges Pakistan is currently facing. It is not really our place to comment on how the people of Pakistan will respond to the crisis or how they will go forward in deciding their future.

Certainly, a country facing multiple problems at the same time will have a bigger challenge to overcome. To date, however, we have observed that despite all these challenges happening at virtually the same time, the government has continued to function and perform its duties. Of course, it has requested a lot of international aid to deal with the flooding, but I see no causal connection between the floods and the political and economic situations referred to earlier.

We note that this is quite a difficult period, but the government of Pakistan is continuing to engage with the international community and respond effectively to the situation.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just to make sure I am clear, I did not in any way intend to suggest that there was a causal connection between the events. I simply wanted you to provide us with information as to the impacts of these floods on political instability and on the economic crisis or, vice versa, the impacts of the economic crisis and political instability on the country's reaction to this natural phenomenon. I do see that there is some understandable discomfort with the idea of taking you down this road.

According to the Global Climate Risk Index, Pakistan is one of ten countries in the world, as you noted, that were most affected by extreme weather events between 2000 and 2019. Mr. Sajjan's mandate letter states that he is to:

Work with the Minister of Environment and Climate Change to mobilize and provide climate finance in order to support developing country adaption, mitigation and resilience, including support for small island states at particular risk of climate-related emergencies.

Has action been taken on that aspect of the mandate letter?

If so, what action relates to Pakistan specifically?

[Marie-Louise Hannan]

First, Mr. Chair, I would just like to apologize if I misunderstood the previous question. My intention is not to give the impression that there is a cause and effect relationship. It is just that I didn't see the impact of one on the other.

Regarding the question about climate events and Minister Sajjan's mandate letter, I would just like to ask that the question be repeated, just to make sure I have understood correctly and have all the points to which I need to respond.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Once again, Mr. Chair, my question is this.

What action has been taken on this provision in Mr. Sajjan's mandate letter?

If actions have been taken, which ones have affected Pakistan, more specifically?