Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 26th, 2022

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Wonderful.

The same question goes to Mr. Shariff. Would you agree that our ODA should be additional to international climate financing?

[Khalil Shariff]

Yes.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you so much.

I have another question for Mr. Shariff.

What were the needs in Pakistan before the floods, before COVID-19? Are you concerned that there will be declines in development indicators on things like girls' education and vaccination?

[Khalil Shariff]

Yes. I'm afraid what we're seeing is already the very long shadow that COVID-19 is casting, unfortunately. It has had a very severe impact across the country, as it has, frankly, in every part of the developing world. The health crisis of COVID-19 has now been overshadowed by a massive food security crisis, an economic crisis and an educational crisis—not to mention the gender crisis that COVID-19 has wrought. The floods, I think, simply exacerbate that.

I'm afraid to say that Pakistan is not unique in this situation. In a sense, the resilience of so many parts of the world has been depleted by the COVID-19 crisis. Governments' fiscal room has massively shrunk in many parts of the developing world. International donors' appetite and capacity in their fiscal room have shrunk.

I do think we're at a moment of very significant vulnerability across the world. We're going to have to be prepared to think about what kind of response is both sufficient and strategic in light of what are almost certainly going to be very mounting needs.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

No, you don't. You're over your time. Thank you, MP Collins.

We go to MP Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you so much to all the witnesses for your testimony and, more importantly, for your work on the ground.

I appreciated the comments that were made with respect to the vital need for reform to the matching program. It is the intention of this committee to prepare a report following these hearings, and my hope is that the report will include a strong recommendation to the government to reform the way they do matching programs. As I mentioned previously, this is a problem we've seen in multiple different cases, and I think there are alternatives the government could be pursuing that would achieve the objectives it wants to achieve while also being fairer.

I want to put this question without asking anyone in particular, but just opening it up to whoever wants to answer. It's about the challenges around minority rights in Pakistan, and how we can ensure that development assistance is available to all communities and also that Canada is playing a constructive role in addressing threats to minorities.

I was very disturbed recently to read of the horrific incitement to violence against the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community by one cleric in particular, who was calling for violence against pregnant women. We have other instances of violence and legal discrimination against Christians and various other minority communities.

Would any of you like to speak to the issue of how we can ensure equal access to development assistance for minorities in the context of Pakistan?

[Dr. Aslam Daud]

I could go first.

It is true that in Pakistan there is racial, religious and ethnic turmoil, where people are against one another. You just mentioned the edict about attacking pregnant women—Ahmadi women—and this is a very sad situation.

Another incident was that there were some tomatoes that were imported from Iran and one group of people said that they would be destroyed because they were Shia tomatoes and Sunnis cannot have them. This is a very sad situation, and this is because of illiteracy, because of fanaticism and because of misguidance that is being spread over there by certain factions.

I think that, at a time of need, the country and the international community should ensure that aid reaches out to all sectors, all groups of people, without any discrimination. That can be ensured by putting some conditions on this: that the government report on how the aid was distributed and how various ethnic, religious and other groups have benefited from the aid that has been provided.

There's not much that can be done about it, because it's the people on the ground who are fanatics who take this action, but the government can be forced to prevent that or at least stop the violence against various ethnic groups and make the aid reach them.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'll jump in here, just because I have limited time.

Dr. Daud, you had a good suggestion there around conditions. To your knowledge, is that being done right now? Is the government attuned to these issues or have they not taken those steps?

[Dr. Aslam Daud]

I'm not aware of it at all.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I want to try to get in one more question in the next minute and a half, but does anyone else want to weigh in very briefly on minority rights?

[Usama Khan]

Yes, I can quickly, in 10 seconds.

When I was in Quetta, we made sure that we were meeting with all of the faith groups there: a significant Hindu community, a Sikh community and a Christian community. Where we can, I think, as humanitarian actors, as NGOs, we do try to make sure there's cross-faith...that you're representing those communities to make sure that for any who are underserved, underprivileged, you can get the aid there.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much.

I know that one issue when it comes to debt relief—and there's been some discussion of that—is the risk that debt relief by western countries has the sort of perverse effect of leading to increased dependency on other lenders—in particular, China. How can we explore that option but in a way that doesn't lead to greater vulnerability given existing indebtedness to actors that may not share our values?

[Rahul Singh]

I would say we have to make sure our values are actually being adhered to. If the way we program funding is not even equitable or ethical, how are we now going to turn around and talk about debt relief or other things if we're not even doing it properly as a government right now?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I know I'm out of time, but if anybody wants to follow up in writing on that debt relief question—because I know it's a bit technical—witnesses can send written submissions afterward and that does contribute to the body of evidence we use for our report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Genuis.

We now go to MP Gaheer.

You have five minutes.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for making time, and a big thank you, obviously, for the work you're doing on the ground.

My first question is for Mr. Shariff.

In regard to your third pillar, you talked about how we need to invest in preparedness. I think back to over a decade ago, when floods happened in Pakistan as well. I'm sure these discussions happened then as well. Has the world learned how to give aid better now after that, or are we still in the same position now?

[Khalil Shariff]

I think the obvious answer, Mr. Chairman, is that we haven't learned. I don't think there's evidence in the analysis I've seen that we're near the kind of investment we need to make in disaster risk reduction and preparedness. There was a global summit in Japan 10 years ago that came up with a number of commitments. Not only does the analysis show it, but common sense shows that if you can prepare and reduce risk, you're going to be spending far less than if you are always running to respond.

I do not think that we have made anywhere near the kind of investment that we need to make globally in this area, I'm very sorry to say.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

In regard to your first pillar, you talked about the need for flexibility in assistance. The worry sometimes is that if strings aren't attached, the funds won't go towards the purpose for which they are intended and they'll actually fill the pockets of people who will take advantage of it.

Do you have any comments about that?

[Khalil Shariff]

I think it's an excellent question. I wouldn't confuse flexibility with the lack of accountability. What I mean when I say flexibility is that we need to design our programming with a view to the actual needs on the ground, so that we don't end up saying, “We're only in a humanitarian phase. We're only going to support humanitarian activity right now.” That's blind to the fact that even though there's humanitarian activity going on, at the same time we have to do some of the early recovery and reconstruction work.

What I'm calling for is that, in the design of donor funding programs, we are clear that we're going to have parameters that reflect the actual realities on the ground.

The question of accountability is absolutely essential. I don't think that has to be compromised at all in the kind of flexibility I'm calling for.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is open to all the organizations.

We know that during disasters women and girls are disproportionately affected. How are the women and girls of Pakistan affected by this flooding? Does the humanitarian response take into consideration the gender dimension?

[Dr. Aslam Daud]

Yes, we definitely take care of that. We ensure that the cultural values or the religious values are not impacted. In the orthodox societies where women would like to stay separate, whenever we provide shelters, we either provide for a family unit at the shelter or have a separate space available for elderly women and children who do not have a male member in the family, and also provide security to them so they feel safe there.

That's the key thing in the emergency phase. At the time of the longer-term phase, when we are looking into building some houses and are repairing the homes, we are giving specific priority to widows and women who do not have an earning member so they can really benefit from this help in the long term.

[Rahul Singh]

MP Gaheer, I would tell you that all of our aid is designed at the family unit, which is really designed to get families access to clean water or access to food hampers. That goes a long way in addressing gender-based violence because you're always ensuring that women and girls are the centre and the core of the type of aid that you're giving.

I will point out to you that we're in a very critical phase in the world. There will be 270 million people this year in need of acute humanitarian assistance. That's four times the number of a decade ago. The money to meet those needs has not kept pace at that 400% increase rate. We need to do things better as a sector in order to meet that increased demand.

[Usama Khan]

I'd just like to add that the funding Islamic Relief is getting from the matching through the Humanitarian Coalition and the government is focused on women and girls. It's providing 4,250 women in affected households with cash grants. It's making sure there are dignity kits and menstrual hygiene management for 9,000 women and girls.

Lastly, but also most importantly, it's conducting a research piece on the impact of climate on pregnant and lactating women and infants in flooded communities, with proposed recommendations to look at some of the long-term impacts.

[Iqwinder Gaheer, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Great, thank you.