Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 23rd, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We go next to MP Zuberi. You have five minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I would like to start by stating and recognizing clearly that a person is a person is a person. I'm sure that this is a value that guides Global Affairs. All of us around this table recognize the common humanity we all have. We hope for a peaceful tomorrow, when everybody can live in true peace and dignity throughout the world, including in the Middle East, in Israel, in the West Bank and in Gaza.

We also recognize that there was a dramatic escalation of violence on October 7. What Hamas did terrorized Israeli civilians. We mourn the loss of each and every life—the 1,400 who died. We want to see the hostages who are currently being held freed. We also mourn the loss of life that is occurring right now as we speak, hour by hour, within Gaza and other parts of the region.

I'd like to focus on humanitarian aid.

Thus far, Canada has committed $60 million in humanitarian aid. We were the first within the international community to say that we will be there to help people who are facing a humanitarian crisis within Gaza. We were the first country to do so.

There has been a major challenge in terms of actually getting that aid to the people who need it. Can you tell us what the impediments are to getting the aid into Gaza?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

The Rafah border crossing remains the only means to get much-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza. The two Israeli crossing points into Gaza are closed for security reasons, and our focus has exclusively been on the Rafah crossing. That has required a variety of conversations.

You understand, of course, that at a border crossing, you have the crossing going out and you have the no-man's land in between the crossing points and then the crossing going in. It's vice versa for people who would be heading out, like Canadian citizens and whatnot.

There have been some physical issues with this crossing, with bombing of the no-man's land and other damages that have needed to be repaired. That has been an issue.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Which parties are involved in allowing aid to pass through? Are there any impediments from any parties to allow aid to pass through to Gaza?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

There are several parties to this. On one side, the border is controlled by Egypt. It goes from Egypt into Rafah. On the border going from Gaza into Egypt in the other direction, it's controlled by the local authority, which would be Hamas. They control the border there.

We have challenges in terms of coordinating access.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Is Egypt the only party involved in allowing goods and humanitarian aid to enter into Gaza? Is Egypt the sole deciding party?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

Egypt is not the sole deciding party, but Egypt is the party that must decide to—

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Which other parties are involved?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

That's Hamas, the local authority in Gaza.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

So Egypt can choose alone to allow things to enter from its border. There's no other screening that's happening.

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

I'm sorry...?

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

There are no other countries, such as America. Other countries are not involved in....

I'll move on to my next question, but essentially I was trying to understand which parties are involved in allowing humanitarian aid to enter into Gaza.

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

Okay, you mean a screen going on of the humanitarian aid to make sure that there's nothing...? Yes, that is happening.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Is Egypt the only party, the sole and unique party?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

I would have to get back to you on that. I do not know the answer as to exactly who is involved in that.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Please, yes, do that. To my knowledge, there are additional parties. I would like to get that information.

My second question is in terms of what's going on right now with respect to the conflict. Beyond dealing with Hamas, is there a solely military solution to seeing that everybody lives with dignity and respect within the region—Palestinians and Israelis—or is there a political solution? Do you want to elaborate on that?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

I think Canada has been very clear and continues to be very clear that there needs to be a political horizon. The political horizon that has been laid out by the international community in UN Security Council resolutions and other frameworks is the two-state solution. This is a solution, though, that would need to be negotiated between the parties. We think it's tremendously important at this moment in time that the political horizon be there. We look for ways to encourage that.

You'll see that the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister for International Development participated in a conference held in Egypt this weekend that was dedicated on the one hand to humanitarian assistance and on the other hand to trying to make sure that there is discussion of this political horizon, that we keep this out there and keep it as the horizon of hope. Without that horizon of hope, we're not going to be able to engage the players in what we need to do to move this situation forward in a healthy way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We next go to MP Garon. You have two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Since the attack on October 7, Israeli strikes on Gaza have killed 4,651 Palestinians, almost half of whom were children. There were also a reported 14,245 injured and 29 UN employees killed in the region. Of course, we musn't forget that these numbers come from the Gaza Ministry of Health.

Ms. Flanagan Whalen, you talked about proportionality a little earlier. Before condemning the facts I have just reported, I'd like you to tell me whether we are still doing proportionality calculations.

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

The figures that you're citing are horrifying. These are people. We are very concerned with the humanitarian impact that this conflict is having. We're very concerned about the impact on civilians.

This is what we're talking about with our partners internationally. This is what we're talking about with the players to try to make sure that the rules of war and international humanitarian law are respected in this conflict and that civilians are protected to the maximum extent. This is absolutely critical, being able to protect civilians. These are conversations that we are having.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Has Canada publicly taken a stance on the deaths of United Nations employees working with Palestinian refugees who are collateral victims? Has Canada responded in any particular way?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

I'm certain that there has been. I have to admit that it's a bit difficult for me in the flow of everything to be able to recall whether this would have been by tweet, but obviously, any deaths of international humanitarian personnel are of great concern to us.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I'll be brief.

We know that there has been a lot of disinformation during the conflict. Do you believe that the statistics reported to us by the Ministry of Health in Gaza are accurate?

[Ann Flanagan Whalen]

I have no doubt that there are significant casualties on the Palestinian side. I cannot vouch for any numbers that are out there. There's a wide range, but the fact of this extraordinary number of Palestinian civilian casualties is our concern.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We'll next go to MP McPherson for two and a half minutes.