Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 18th, 2025

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you. I hope they returned to North Korea and not South Korea.

[Eric Laporte]

Yes, my apologies if I said “South Korea”.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Does the department currently have targeted policies to counter Russian disinformation in coordination with other allies?

[Eric Laporte]

Indeed, Canada works closely with its G7 partners on disinformation issues. The last time Canada chaired the G7, we created the G7 rapid response mechanism that is designed to detect disinformation. We continued to work hard on this initiative during our presidency, and the other G7 members have continued that work. That is a good example of what is being done to counter disinformation.

We also work very closely with our NATO and European Union allies to counter disinformation. We know that Russia uses those tactics to strengthen their position or to divide people, so a lot of effort goes into that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

Next, we have MP Kronis.

You have five minutes.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

I want to use my time today to touch on the topic of accountability and the role that Canada often plays in the investigation and enforcement of international criminal law. The situation we're in is that we know of the occurrence of a number of war crimes in connection with children and with others on the ground. There are ICC warrants. I'm a bit of a hawk on sovereignty and the principles of complementarity in jurisdiction, but let's assume for a moment that Russia does not prosecute its own crimes, and it becomes necessary for the international community to step in.

Way back when, I was at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. One thing I really learned there was that the quality of the evidence makes an enormous difference, not just for the investigation and enforcement of international criminal law but also for the ability of people to get on with their lives and have their story told and be seen. Canada has often played a really important role.

That's a long-winded introduction, but in the context of the convening role that Canada is playing with Norway in the context of the missing, kidnapped Ukrainian children, what are we doing? Are we doing anything in the investigation space that will help preserve the kind of evidence that's needed? Of course, these things happen several years onward.

[Jocelyn Kinnear]

The point about the need for evidence and the very particular requirements for making sure that evidence is gathered correctly is a really important one. Canada was actually among the small group of countries that referred the situation in Ukraine to the ICC in March 2022, immediately after the full-scale invasion began. Canada supports investigations, including arrest warrants for President Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova. More broadly for the ICC and ICJ and what they're looking into on Ukraine, we've contributed both funding and personnel to support investigations into war crimes, sexual violence and crimes against children. Those are things we've directly funded with the ICC and ICJ.

I would also mention that more broadly, through a number of different multilateral mechanisms, we have also.... I can say that at the OSCE, we've provided funding through the ODIHR, the Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights, which is part of the OSCE. The ODIHR was undertaking a very important project of gathering, in a trauma-informed way, information, evidence and testimonials of what had happened.

Again, these cases aren't being prosecuted right now. I share the honourable member's supposition—I'm not super optimistic that they're going to be prosecuted in Russia—but having that body of evidence and collecting it immediately, or as soon as possible, in a responsible way that will preserve its judicial integrity and relevance is very important.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thanks very much for that. That body of evidence will be useful to whoever prosecutes these crimes. The most important thing, of course, is that the crimes are prosecuted.

I want to ask you a question that I asked the ambassador earlier. Putting on your most optimistic hat for a moment—and I appreciate the facial expression that I just saw from your end—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

—what do you think the most likely pathway to peace would be? Is there anything on the horizon that we can draw hope from in the current international climate around this particular conflict?

[Jocelyn Kinnear]

I apologize. My mother has always told me that I need to work on my poker face.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jocelyn Kinnear]

I guess I would say that I draw optimism from the stories of resilience that we hear from Ukrainians all the time.

This is a war, and I remember my Ukrainian counterpart at the OSCE, in the days immediately following the full-scale invasion in 2022, saying, “Jocelyn, one of the things that are so terrifying right now is that everybody is just assuming that Ukraine is going to fall.”

He believed, and it is quite a remarkable thing—considering the assumptions that I think one would draw based on the relative size of the militaries, etc.—that the Ukrainians are still going. That's where I draw my optimism from. I don't have a ton of optimism about President Putin, but I do think that we all need to be determined in exerting whatever pressure we can to bring him to the negotiating table and bring an end to the war.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

Next, we have five minutes for Madam Lapointe.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I will be sharing my time with my colleague.

Director General, thank you for being here today. I was glad to hear you reference the OSCE, because I think my question is going to draw from your experience there as well as in your current role.

I was part of a Canadian delegation that went to the Baltic regions. We met with Estonia and Latvia when we were there last year, in November. We met with military and defence officials there. One of the recurring themes we heard in all our meetings was that a weakness in the defence of one was a weakness in all of our defences. We learned about how they're doing military exercises together and a lot of planning together.

How significant is that in terms of an approach to military preparedness and defence? How important is it that we view that beyond just the Baltic region when it comes to Russia?

[Jocelyn Kinnear]

I realize it was directed to me, and I have views, but I think that actually my colleague Eric is far more expert and able to answer that.

[Eric Laporte]

I think the honourable member mentioned that the weakness of one is the weakness of all, in a sense, and that is at the core of NATO and article 5, and of article 3 of the Washington treaty, which really forces all allies to make sure they have the capabilities to defend themselves, simply because of that.

In the case of the Baltics, of course, there you have a number of countries that are very close to the Russian border often feeling very threatened, but they're part of the NATO alliance, and they have benefited from assurances of article 5 security guarantees and the presence on the ground of other allies. Canada, for example, is leading a battle group in Latvia with 2,500 personnel, along with 11 other NATO allies that are contributing to that battle group. That is replicated in the other Baltic states as well.

The fact that they're there means that on a daily basis they're training, they're exercising, and they're ensuring interoperability and communications. They're also signalling and messaging to the adversary that there is, frankly, “no success for you here if you come in the area”. That works for NATO.

In the context of Ukraine, of course, Ukraine is not an ally and not a member of NATO, but that said, NATO allies are providing considerable support to Ukraine and wanting to ensure that it is able to defend itself, as it has been. My colleague mentioned how amazing the Ukrainian defence has been over the past almost four years, and it continues to be so. There are commitments out there from allies in terms of long-term security commitments to Ukraine that guarantee, if you will, a continued support ongoing over the long term—military, political, economic, etc.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I have another question. I know this question was posed to the ambassador, but I would also be interested in hearing your thoughts on it, on the effectiveness of the sanctions that have been placed upon Russia. You hear some experts say that they've been effective. You hear others say that their economy is still as strong as ever. In your opinion, how effective have the sanctions been?

[Jocelyn Kinnear]

Anybody who thought that the sanctions were going to suddenly cause the Russian economy to collapse, that by putting these in place everything would just sort of immediately fall apart, would have had a mistaken belief back in 2022, but I would say that sanctions are a marathon and not a sprint, and over the course of the last three years, the sanctions have played an important role in degrading Russia's economy.

As I mentioned earlier, by narrowing Russia's options considerably, sanctions have caused inflation to rise. I also referenced the sovereign wealth fund, which they've had to draw heavily on in order to continue financing their war. They have pivoted their entire economy to a war footing. That means that other sectors of the economy are suffering. Is it completely degraded? No, but is it somewhat degraded? Absolutely. Should we continue working in that direction? Absolutely, and when I say we, I mean Canada, as well as all of our partners.

As I also referenced earlier, it's a bit like a game of whack-a-mole. You put sanctions on, and there's an immediate effort to try to evade them. Then we have to pile on more sanctions or measures to work to counter those evasion strategies as well, but the work, the coordination that is happening between Canada and its G7 partners on this, is unprecedented in nature.

We all have very different legislative systems and evidentiary thresholds. We've each built our own separate types of sanctions regimes, which means that you can't just press a button and it automatically goes out, but the work includes regular calls—I was on one this morning—around making sure that we're coordinating, sharing information, sharing evidence with one another and working to make everything as coordinated and effective as possible. It's definitely been an important factor over the last few years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much to both of you for your appearance before the committee today.

That concludes our meeting. Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.