Evidence of meeting #47 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was plan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
I do not necessarily.
12:45 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
May I say why?
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Madam, I appreciate that, and that, I think, just defines the difference between you and me. As a father of two young girls and now recently a young son, I can see no greater responsibility for me as a father, as a member of Parliament, as a neighbour to my community than to ensure that people who are raping children are put away and taken out of society so that we can ensure that there is protection.
12:45 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
I think it's very important to take it seriously and to do what is needed to reduce it. I know from experience that this kind of attitude and approach to it could drive a lot of the disclosures of this underground.
12:50 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
Because there are many victims who are struggling with many problems in their entire life who do not necessarily want the prison sentence to be the outcome for what they need--
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
I appreciate that, and I'm going to go on.
When I think of the cost of crime in Canada as estimated over $70 billion, not including the pain and suffering, I think the pain and suffering is truly what we have to get to.
When I look at the people who have been raped over the years and the generational impacts that has on their communities, on their individual lives, and their capacity to be constructive within their own communities, I know there is a far greater cost to our country and to our communities than can ever be estimated in increasing the capacity within our prison systems.
I believe it's absolutely essential, if these investments are made, to ensure that children in this country--our most vulnerable in this country--are protected, because we know that sexual offenders of children are more likely to offend than pretty much any other offence that's out there.
12:50 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
It's worth putting all the money we can into something that will work to reduce the crime and help the victim. But if you're just going to say that flying someone to the moon, even though it costs a lot of money, is worth doing, it has absolutely no connection to how you're going to help the victim--
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, if Mr. Warkentin believes this strongly in what he says, then you ought to hear the arguments on the other side, from this witness. He ought to hear from this witness and allow her to answer.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
I have a counter point of order.
We're running a clock. I would just ask that if we could let people ask questions and answer them, and if we could minimize the statements of belief and actually get to some statements of fact, that would be really relevant.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
The fact is, Mr. Chair, that a person who rapes children, who is in prison, is not able to rape more children.
The cost to our society of children who are raped is unbelievable, insurmountable, and is in no relation to what it actually costs to put people into prison.
12:50 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
It's not a question of words. It's a question of action that will truly, in the community and for human lives, make a difference. Simply, the use of the words “prison for rape” does not correspond to a reality that is meaningful for a lot of victims.
I think it's important to listen to the victims--
12:50 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
--and some of them will benefit from this and want this, but for many, it's not what they want.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Many in your congregations know the pain and believe that putting these people behind bars is absolutely necessary.
Thank you.
12:50 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
Sometimes that's true. Sometimes that's true, absolutely.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here.
I share your concerns. We want to make our communities safe for all Canadians, and we've found different ways of working together. I've worked on restorative justice programs in our own community. I've worked with the prevention, treatment, education, and enforcement. It's a continuum of care, and it's something we believe in.
I know that our federal staff who work within the prisons look at each individual. There's more that needs to be done on mental health, fetal alcohol syndrome, for aboriginals, as you mention.
While some of the investment we're putting into infrastructure is updating the infrastructure and also adding on, it's also ensuring they have the facilities so that they can properly train these individuals and give them the skills so that when they are released they can be positive contributors to society.
Going to the issue of sentencing, I had the opportunity to meet Reverend Schiemann. His son was one of the four Mayerthorpe RCMP officers who were murdered approximately five years ago--on March 3, 2005, to be exact.
Reverend Schiemann stated this past week in the Edmonton Journal, on February 4, that:
“We need to look past Roszko...”
--who is the fellow who shot all four--
“...because, as we've noted, there are thousands of others out there like him,” Schiemann's father, Rev. Don Schiemann, told the inquiry during his address. “Some are better, some are far worse.”
And it said:
The families recommended that the courts take a tougher stance on witnesses who fail to come to court to testify....
And then they said:
The families also recommended higher sentences overall, changes to the parole system, and broader risk assessments that could be shared by police, the courts and correctional agencies.
How would you help us with that?
12:50 p.m.
Community Chair of Justice, Church Council on Justice and Corrections
I had a hard time following all of that. I'm sorry, it was said quickly.
The main point is that this person is saying....
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Unfortunately, both of you will be unable to explore this point inside of this committee, but you may be able to explore it outside of the committee.
Mr. Martin has to compress seven minutes into five.