Evidence of meeting #84 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michelle d'Auray  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Liseanne Forand  President, Shared Services Canada
Alex Lakroni  Chief Financial Officer, Finance Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
John McBain  Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

11 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I see people have settled in, so welcome, everyone, to the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates as we undertake our annual review of the main estimates.

We're pleased to welcome as witnesses today officials and representatives from the Department of Public Works and from Shared Services Canada. Many of the witnesses will be familiar to committee members as regular and frequent visitors, and they're certainly welcomed back again.

Leading the delegation for the Department of Public Works is Madam Michelle d'Auray, deputy minister—welcome again, Madam d'Auray—and from Shared Services Canada, Liseanne Forand, the president.

Without delay, we'll ask Madam d'Auray, I suppose, to make some opening remarks, and—

11 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Chair, before we begin, I wonder if I could just register a complaint on behalf of I and my colleagues.

We provided more than a month's notice to the minister. The date was chosen in consultation with the minister's office. We would appreciate an explanation of...and a commitment that the minister is going to appear on another date, before the deadline passes.

11 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Perhaps the witnesses could pardon us while we have a brief dialogue between some of the committee members.

Mr. Braid, did you have your hand up?

11 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Yes.

Certainly I appreciate the comments. The minister would very much have wanted to be here. She did have another commitment this morning. This really came down to a scheduling issue. It was a commitment that unfortunately she could not change.

11 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

I'll go in order here.

Mr. McCallum is next.

11 a.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Well, that may be so, although she did have a lot of notice.

I think the question is whether we can find a time for her to come. I think it's important to hear the minister. Whether she could come today or not is one issue, but can she come at a future time?

11 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Mathieu Ravignat.

11 a.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

This happens once a year. It's a bare minimum, I think, that the minister be present to defend her estimates and of course her budget.

It's a very unfortunate thing. Given the warning time we've given, I think giving us an answer without any details with regard to why she can't be present today is completely unacceptable.

11 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

I should say that we asked the clerk to ask the minister why she was unable to attend, and she was unable to tell us why she was unable to attend.

Ms. Duncan.

11 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I think the best thing to do is this. I move that we re-extend an invitation to the minister, and that the clerk work with her offices to find an appropriate date in both schedules by that time.

It's hard to find any matter more important than being accountable to spending. I think it's absolutely necessary. This is a key department that our committee reviews, and we were very much looking forward to the opportunity to review these matters with the minister.

I move that we direct the clerk to contact the minister to pursue another date.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

There's a motion on the floor. I'm going to rule that the motion is in order, because it's the subject matter that we're dealing with.

Peter, you may speak to the motion.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

I don't think we want to belabour this too much and take away time from asking important questions of our officials, who are here about the matters that you indicate are important to you.

Again, this unfortunately came down to an issue of scheduling. Certainly the clerk could follow up again with the minister's office.

I suggest that we proceed with our questioning this morning.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

There's a motion on the floor.

Are there any further speakers to the motion before we put the question?

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

What exactly is the motion?

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

The motion is that we summon the minister to defend her estimates before the committee that she is responsible to.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

I would suggest that we defer this to a subcommittee. This falls under the category of committee business. We can discuss it in that forum and not take, as I say, any further time away from this important matter today.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Well, there's a motion on the floor that I've ruled in order, and the motion is debatable.

John.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

The quickest way not to take any more time is just to vote for the motion. It's just requesting the minister to come at a different time.

I don't see why the Conservatives would object to that.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

I move that we adjourn debate on this particular motion to our subcommittee on committee business.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

There's a motion on the floor. I don't think I can entertain another motion at this time. I think we have to deal with this motion. If you wanted this to be dealt with in subcommittee, it would have had to been done prior to the motion being done.

The motion to adjourn is not in order either. We have a motion on the floor. I will consult on this.

That's true, Peter, the clerk advises me that the motion to adjourn debate on this would have been in order had you not put a qualifier that it be moved then to the subcommittee, because now that's debatable.

If it's the will of the committee, we could simply put the question whether.... But I'm not going to entertain a bunch more motions. We have a motion on the floor that we're debating.

Mr. Ravignat.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC

Yes, I'd like to debate that. I'd like to debate the substantive motion before my colleagues decide to cut off debate again.

Is it a charade or is it not a charade? Do you actually believe that ministers are accountable for what they do? Do you actually believe that ministers are accountable for the money that they spend, that they intend to spend? It is a minimum that the minister appear to defend her budget. To give us a last minute excuse puts into question this committee's oversight functions.

Oversight is a fundamental democratic power of this committee and to be able to question the minister is part of that responsibility. So I hope that my Conservative colleagues don't intend to shirk our responsibilities by voting against this motion.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Mr. Braid.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Peter Braid Conservative Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate your guidance and clarification. I will therefore move to adjourn debate on this motion.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

That's in order and it has no further debate. The question has to be put.

(Motion agreed to)

The motion to adjourn debate carries. The subject will be put over to a future time.

Okay, Linda, you're on the list here, but we're finished with that issue.

In that case, we will welcome Madame d'Auray to give us her opening remarks and then we'll allow the same amount of time to Madame Forand, and then we'll open it to questions from the floor.

Madame d'Auray, you have the floor.

11:05 a.m.

Michelle d'Auray Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. It is a pleasure to appear before this committee for the first time since my appointment as deputy minister of Public Works and Government Services Canada, which was not quite six months ago.

I have my briefing book with me and I will now introduce my officials who are with me at the table today. They are people who are familiar to you: Alex Lakroni, who is the chief financial officer and assistant deputy minister; John McBain, who, as of yesterday, was appointed special adviser to the deputy minister.

Just a word on that change, Mr. McBain was, until last Friday, assistant deputy minister, real property, but as a transition to his eventual retirement, I was able to convince him to continue to provide me with his expertise and experience for a little while yet. He looks great. I'm grateful to him to have agreed to this assignment and for his appearance before you today.

His successor, whom you also know, Pierre-Marc Mongeau, is also here today, sitting behind us, to address any questions on the parliamentary precinct projects and plans. He is being replaced by Nancy Chahwan, who is also here.

So we are ready to answer your questions pertaining to our 2013-2014 main estimates and report on plans and priorities.

Although the knowledge I acquired at the Treasury Board Secretariat will stand me in good stead in my new role, I understand that taking the reigns of Public Works and Government Services Canada is quite a responsibility. This role is very dear to me, both for its important capacity as service provider and for its government-wide responsibilities.

I believe that centralized service delivery agencies enable the government to benefit from significant improvements in terms of productivity, efficiency and economies of scale. These agencies also help the government standardize a number of administrative functions to best leverage the private sector by providing practical common solutions. By releasing departments from having to perform daily activities, these agencies enable them to focus on their mandates and priorities.

PWGSC plays a key role in the operations of the federal government. As its treasurer, accountant, central purchasing agent, linguistic authority, and real property manager, the department is home to the Receiver General, prepares the annual public accounts of Canada, and manages a cash flow of more than $2 trillion a year in support of that role. It accommodates more than 270,000 federal employees in a diverse real estate portfolio that comprises almost 1,800 locations across Canada. It manages and oversees the lion's share of government procurement, which contributes more than $14 billion annually to the Canadian economy, translates more than one million pages of text on behalf of federal organizations, and provides translation and interpretation services for Parliament.

For the 2013-14 main estimates, PWGSC's gross budget is $5.9 billion, broken down as follows. There is $2.4 billion for the rent, fit-up, and utilities of government-wide accommodation; Receiver General and central compensation administration functions such as banking fees, cheques, and envelopes; and translation services to Parliament. There is $1.9 billion related to providing optional services to departments, such as real property project management and translation services, on a cost recovery basis. We need $900 million to deliver our core programs such as central purchasing and banking, public accounts, payroll, and pension services. We need $600 million in capital for Government of Canada buildings and infrastructure.

PWGSC generates $3.3 billion in revenues, or 56% of its budget, from client departments. This results in a net appropriation of $2.6 billion. The 2013-14 main estimates represent an increase of $254 million, or 4.5%, over last year's main estimates. One of the key reasons for this increase over last year's estimates is the amount allocated to the rehabilitation of the Parliament Buildings. Work continues so as to ensure their preservation as heritage assets and national symbols, and as functioning buildings that are essential to the continuity of our national democratic institutions. The total 2012-13 estimates earmarked $247 million for the parliamentary buildings rehabilitation projects. For this fiscal year, the allocation is $261 million—an increase of $14 million as per approved project plans and schedules. The parliamentary precinct's west and east blocks are included in the rehabilitation projects for 2013-14. All major projects, including the major rehabilitation of the West Block and 180 Wellington Street, are still on or ahead of schedule and on or under budget.

Another factor contributing to the increase in our 2013-2014 main estimates is the purchase of the Terrasses de la Chaudière complex in Gatineau. The amount of $50 million would be added to our budget to complete the transaction.

During this period of downsizing, such a purchase might seem odd, but this is not a new space for the government because we already occupy the entire complex: nearly 8,000 government employees work at Terrasses.

As well, the Government of Canada had entered into a long-term lease-purchase agreement during the construction of the complex. We have earned equity through lease payments and improvements carried out over more than three decades.

The purchase also allows us to maintain the 25/75 distribution of office space between the cities of Gatineau and Ottawa.

In addition, this purchase would enable us to exercise the option contracted when the buildings were built and leased and is an excellent investment for the crown and taxpayers.

Another increase is $32 million required for the transformation of the pay administration initiative, support for the implementation of the consolidation of pay services in Miramichi, New Brunswick, and modernization of the government's 40-year-old pay system. This aligns with economic action plan 2013's emphasis on standardizing, consolidating, and transforming the way government does business to improve services and deliver efficiencies to Canadian taxpayers. These additional funding requirements are offset by PWGSC's commitment to realize its share of total government-wide savings initiatives.

This year, PWGSC will realize additional savings of $95 million, of which $67 million is associated with our 2010-11 strategic review and $28 million results from budget 2012 expenditure review savings. These efficiencies and productivity improvements are in support of the Government of Canada's commitment to ensure a return to balanced budgets. Maintaining a sound fiscal position is the most important contribution the government can make to bolster confidence and growth, and Public Works and Government Services Canada is proud to contribute to this effort.

Having set out the highlights of our main estimates, I will turn now to how these would be expended, once supply is provided by Parliament, in support of the priorities set out in our report on plans and priorities for fiscal year 2013-14. The department has one strategic outcome: high-quality, central programs and services that ensure sound stewardship on behalf of Canadians and meet the program needs of federal institutions. Seven programs support that outcome, and both the main estimates and the report on plans and priorities set out the planned allocations for each of these programs.

The department's top three organizational priorities for 2013-14 are delivering efficient and effective services, transforming critical infrastructure, and ensuring sound stewardship and management excellence.

Federal departments and agencies, along with many stakeholders from the private sector, rely on Public Works and Government Services Canada for the delivery of effective and value-added services.

Our priorities therefore include improving and streamlining procurement processes in ail categories of goods and services, implementing the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy, completing the government's seven-point plan to replace fighter jets, improving the management of our real property portfolio, consolidating pay services and modernizing the computing platform to reduce costs, providing more standardized services to small agencies to help them reduce operational costs, and reducing the administrative burden for companies in the Industrial Security Program.

All of our service offerings and priority activities focus on improving performance, increasing consistency and efficiency of offer, and reducing costs for departments and agencies.

My second priority, transforming critical infrastructure, encompasses all the work to rehabilitate and preserve the buildings in the parliamentary precinct through the long-term vision and plan; delivering on a substantial program of work for our engineering assets, including something I was not aware of until I arrived at the department, portions of the Alaska Highway, for which we are the custodians; and leading the workplace 2.0 initiative for the government, which includes updating workspaces, and with Shared Services Canada, enabling technologies and work processes that create a more efficient and productive work environment.

Our third priority, ensuring sound stewardship and management excellence, speaks both to our goal to drive efficiencies within our own departmental internal services and to the stewardship role we play in ensuring the integrity of the procurement and contracting processes, which we manage for federal departments and agencies.

Safeguarding the public trust in Public Works and Government Services Canada is a priority for me and for all our employees. The department has been working diligently to protect the integrity of its operations, and more specifically, its procurement processes. Our goal is to ensure that we conduct our business to the highest ethical standards, which Canadian citizens expect us to uphold and protect.

We have a strong framework in place to support accountability and integrity in procurement. This includes a code of conduct, fairness monitoring, audits, internal investigations, policies, procedures, and governance measures. I understand we will have a chance to discuss these in greater detail at an upcoming appearance before this committee as you undertake work in this area,

In closing, Mr. Chair, members of the committee, I have come to appreciate that sound financial management is a hallmark of Public Works and Government Services Canada. We are entrusted with a large mandate, and we manage significant sums of money. We will continue to exercise financial leadership, seek efficiencies, improve service delivery, and identify opportunities for additional savings. I can assure you that our department strives to ensure consistent delivery of high-quality services to Canadians while providing value for money for taxpayers.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for your attention. My colleagues and I will be pleased to answer your questions.