Evidence of meeting #152 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was year.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Welcome back, Mr. Sarantakis. Congratulations. I understand that it's the highlight of everyone's year to be in front of OGGO for estimates, so I'm glad you're able to be part of it. It's an early Christmas.
You both touched on the Phoenix issue. You both have $99,000 in your departments. Twenty different departments got that exact amount. Obviously, you do not have the exact plan for it. What exactly will that be used for?
Why don't you go first, Mr. Sarantakis?
President, Canada School of Public Service
We have hired two people full time for a shortened period, from now until the end of the fiscal period, with the $99,000. Previously—
President, Canada School of Public Service
It is to basically help employees navigate the system. We've hired an AS and a CR.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
We've obviously all dealt with Phoenix a lot. The Auditor General's report came out recently, and it is still very critical about the training. We've gone out in the field. I know Mr. Blaikie has, and I met with Correctional Services recently. It's not your fault, but they were very dismissive of the quality of the training.
What do you see as your role in getting better training for the public servants on Phoenix? I can't help but note the irony that the people who do training for the government have to bring in people to help their own people because they haven't been trained properly on Phoenix.
President, Canada School of Public Service
You're not going to hear those words from me because I didn't say that, but I'll come to that in a moment.
In terms of the training we offer, it comes in two forms, neither of which were developed by the school. We've been platform hosts for these. The first, the core training that the Treasury Board Secretariat has requested that everybody in the system go through, was developed by PSPC, which is also the provider of Phoenix.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Do we need to review that? Should a third party, either your department Mr. Borbey's, review the actual quality of that training?
President, Canada School of Public Service
I wouldn't disagree with that suggestion. We were actually going to look into that.
President, Canada School of Public Service
We've run about 127,000 people through that training, and we've also run 23,000 delegated managers through that training. The Treasury Board Secretariat thought it was really important to make that mandatory. That's kind of the government-wide system.
Because so many people have been affected, as Mr. Borbey mentioned, it's a significant percentage of both our departments. In our department, it's in the order of three out of every four employees—
President, Canada School of Public Service
—who have been affected. Prior to receiving the $99,000, we had six employees working on this to kind of go through and correct the issues. Now we have eight. That doesn't sound like a lot, but it's a 33% increase, so we've been able to take an almost 33% cut on the stock of our problems.
Conservative
President, Public Service Commission
I'll ask Ms. Jacobs to answer on our behalf.
Conservative
Eva Jacobs Director General, Finance and Administration, Public Service Commission
Exactly. The $99,000 is really a small amount, right?
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm not criticizing. I'm just wondering what it's for.
Director General, Finance and Administration, Public Service Commission
What we're spending right now to try to resolve the Phoenix issues is really about $840,000. We have a team of finance people dedicated to this, as well as HR. We did hire one person to bridge the gap between the two, because sometimes the two don't necessarily connect. We do have dedicated people doing this, on top of the other people who were already there. Their workloads have just increased.
Director General, Finance and Administration, Public Service Commission
It is a drop in the bucket for what we're doing, but it definitely—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
It's more to know exactly what it's for, because we're trying to get a handle on what each department is doing. When we're chatting, it does sound like every department has a different need and a different plan for that.
I have one last question, Mr. Borbey. We're just trying to trace some of the funding as it goes between departments in terms of the way the estimates and the budget are done. I'm just wondering if you could walk us through B-base and C-base funding for employees.
President, Public Service Commission
You said B-base and C-base. I'm not sure I follow. We have our main estimates—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
This is just for general funding. It's not out of the estimates, but just for general people working for the public service.
I may have to follow up through a different department. It's just that information has come back to us about certain employees who should be at a certain base getting funded through a different—
