Government Operations Committee on Oct. 4th, 2016

[Adrian White]

It's unfair. The municipality here in Cape Breton has the highest commercial taxes in Atlantic Canada, and it now has the highest residential taxes in Atlantic Canada. That is actually a topic of discussion in our municipal election.

I don't think that it's fair, and it's happened from the federal government to the provincial government and from the provincial government to the municipal government. It's rolling down and it will always be rolling into the municipal tax base as a result of that, but I do not think that's fair and I think that when changes are made, the cost of that change should be borne by the folks who have decided to create the cost, not the municipalities, which had little to no say in that change at all.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay. You're saying it's a form of downloading, correct?

[Adrian White]

That is correct.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Did you want to say something?

[Kristen MacEachern]

I actually found the number for how much it's going to cost or has cost. The CMB conversion, which is only partially completed, has cost $210 million.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's $210 million, but we don't know if that's for any land or for any permit fees that they've been paying or they might have to pay in the future, or for operating costs, right? That's just for sticking them in there.

[Kristen MacEachern]

Sorry; that's the number given to us by Canada Post themselves.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Another big issue that has come up is seniors not being able to get to their community mailboxes. Canada Post has put forward the idea that maybe families or friends can go and pick up their mail if they give them the keys, or they could make an application and have medical proof that they're incapable of doing that and maybe get that type of mail once a week. Are you aware of this and do you know the cost for a person to make that application through a doctor?

[Gordon MacDonald]

First of all, I think it's a pretty sad that Canada Post would expect our seniors and our disabled to do that.

I know several people who are seniors and disabled and differently abled. When they go to these places, it would be costly for them to get a cab to the end of the street. It would also be costly for someone to pick them up and take them to the end of the street.

I'm going to tell you that as a letter carrier—and I was a letter carrier for 25 years, up until I needed a knee replacement from all the pounding on the street—we used to check on our seniors every day. We knew their routines. We'd go in, and if we saw their mail wasn't picked up, we'd knock on their door. We checked on them. That's what they got to expect in all our communities, and it was a regular thing. On my walk, I had 500-plus customers, and a lot of them were seniors. In small-town Canada a lot of seniors are in place. Cape Breton is full of seniors. We're a senior community. It's almost a bedroom community of seniors nowadays.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I have to stop you there now, but thank you for that.

Mr. Ayoub, you have the floor for seven minutes, please.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank you for welcoming us to your beautiful region. This is the first time I've been to Cape Breton and I find the scenery wonderful. I'd like to come back here with my family.

Our committee is doing a cross-Canada tour. Over the past few days, we have been to several cities. Today we are here, and I would like to hear something different. My remarks are addressed to the union representatives in particular.

From one meeting to the next, we are given the same information, more or less, and the same messages. You are well briefed; the message is being conveyed, we have heard it.

Mr. MacDonald, you have worked for Canada Post for 31 years. Madam, you have also been with the corporation for a long time. In your opinion, what is the future of Canada Post in this region? You know the area well and you know the ropes. As we would say in Quebec, you know the poutine.

Perhaps Canada Post did not consult you. From what I see, there has not been any communication. If you had been consulted, what would you have said about the future of Canada Post?

Obviously, the Canada Post Corporation is not what it was 30 years ago. Email, for instance, did not exist 30 years ago, and the postal banking service that used to exist is no longer in use today. We have to consider all of the services. Today, the government is being asked to make a decision that will determine the future of Canada Post. I'd like to hear your point of view.

Stray from the beaten path. What is your future with Canada Post? You are going to retire in the next few years. What do you want to leave your children? What is the future of a letter carrier or postmaster here in Cape Breton?

[Kristen MacEachern]

The unfortunate part is what I see for Canada Post and what I believe is going to happen with Canada Post unless serious things happen with the government right now, such as, as you said, postal banking. I can see us thinking outside the box and offering services to these smaller communities that have no access and have been left out in the cold, communities that services and companies are running away from.

We have more offices than Tim Hortons has in Canada. There's no reason we shouldn't be using the offices, the infrastructure we already have, and offering services to people, such as broadband Internet. These communities pay the same taxes as people in urban centres. There's no reason they can't have the exact same service and exact same quality of postal service that everyone else does, and for me, it would look completely different. Post offices would be the hub of the community again, as they should be. That's what I see and what I hope will happen.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

It's what you hope.

Mr. MacDonald, would you comment?

[Gordon MacDonald]

What I would hope is similar to what Kristen is saying.

When I came into the post office 31 years ago, I was excited. I felt very fortunate to have a good, stable job with a pension in my future and to be able to raise my children at home here in Cape Breton. I felt that way 31 years ago. I'm not as very proud today of Canada Post as I was then.

As to what I would hope to see in our future, I believe the Canadian Union of Postal Workers is very envisioned, is very clear on the direction in which Canada Post is going and on the direction that we need to take. We understand that mail volumes are going down, but we are also aware that our parcel volumes and the Internet have exploded our business and we need to look at how we can deal with that explosion.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

At the same time, you realize that there is a need to change. There is a need to maybe improve some of the services somewhere, add some services, maybe regroup services that you're not offering right now, but we need to go in a positive way to find some other revenue, other services.

[Gordon MacDonald]

Do you know you can't buy an 8 x 10 envelope in a single pack at the Canada Post outlet? Why not? We deal with paper. Why are we not selling every kind of paper product at Canada Post? Why are we not doing passport applications at Canada Post? Why are we not—

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Do you feel that you need more...not understanding, but more communication with the head office of Canada Post, with the higher management? Right now that seems to be a trigger between the two, les deux solitudes. You're far apart. Sometimes you get together; you've signed a contract for two years. What's going to happen in two years from now?

[Gordon MacDonald]

It will be more of the same. We're not improving. Canada Post has been closed-minded for so many years now. It's crazy to try to deal with how closed-minded they are, even locally, because in their local offices they're so micromanaged they cannot make a decision. If we got rid of all the supervisors in Atlantic Canada, it wouldn't make a difference, other than that the profits would go up. They micromanage it so finely from Ottawa that it's unbelievable.

They don't make decisions. They do a bunch of paperwork, and all the managers and supervisors—

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have another question. My time is running out. I have maybe a minute left. I'm sorry, Mr. White, that I don't have a question for you.

[Adrian White]

That's all right.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

What's your feeling when you hear Mr. White's testimony on the business side of Canada Post's service, and there is a gap between the two? There is a big gap.

[Kristen MacEachern]

As far as costs being raised for business owners is concerned, I completely agree with him. It doesn't need to happen, because we're a profitable entity. We are meant to break even, but that has flown over the heads of many of us, apparently, and he's right that we are a public service and we should remain a public service. We are making money. During the last 22 years, there was one year in which we did not make money.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

There is a study that says you're not going to make money but lose money in the next 10 years—$700 million.

That's what a study shows. Maybe we can believe that study or not.

[Kristen MacEachern]

Forgive me for not believing the projections, because they were off by $555 million in one year.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I understand.