Evidence of meeting #10 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was i've.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Joël Lightbound  Minister of Government Transformation, Public Works and Procurement
Reza  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Lee  Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
Ryder  Associate Professor, Marketing and Entrepreneurship, DeGroote School of Business, McMaster University, As an Individual

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Good afternoon, everyone. We're in session. Welcome to meeting number 10 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(c), the committee is undertaking its study of the situation of Canada Post, starting with Minister Lightbound.

In my 10 years of OGGO, I haven't seen you here before in our committees. Welcome to OGGO, Minister Lightbound. The floor is yours for five minutes.

Before we start, colleagues, I know we're normally a bit more generous with our time. Today, I'm going to keep everyone identical or straight to their time. If you run out, I will cut you off. If you don't leave time for the minister to answer, I will cut him off as well. Watch your clocks.

Minister, the floor is yours. Again, welcome to OGGO. You have five minutes, sir.

3:30 p.m.

Louis-Hébert Québec

Liberal

Joël Lightbound LiberalMinister of Government Transformation

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all members of the government operations and estimates committee for the invitation. It is special for me to be with you as this is my first appearance before the committee as Minister of Public Works and Procurement. It's an honour to be here.

I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to discuss Canada Post today, an institution that is vital to our country, that Canadians love, and that they are very attached to, as am I. I think it's important that we all have this discussion together.

I would also like to thank the committee for their valuable report entitled “Canada's Postal Service: A Lifeline for Rural and Remote Communities”. As Minister of Government Transformation, Public Works and Procurement, I welcome the work of this committee. Our government is committed to addressing their thoughtful recommendations. On Monday, October 20, 2025, the government tabled its response to the committee's report. I'd be pleased to discuss it later today.

Mr. Chair, we are equally committed to seeing Canada Post survive through this existential crisis it is in. As you all know, the labour dispute is ongoing. I continue to urge both management and the union to find a path forward at the bargaining table. Over the course of the last weeks and months, I've met with both the union and management. I know they are both committed to finding a sustainable path for Canada Post. I urge them to keep negotiating in good faith.

Canada Post is an institution that needs saving. At this juncture in its history, and maybe more than ever, it's an institution that needs saving.

For nearly 160 years now, and to this day, postal workers have connected Canadians, rain or shine, in small towns and in big cities, providing a lifeline to hundreds of northern, indigenous and remote communities.

However, the current situation for Canada Post is unsustainable. Since 2018, Canada Post has accumulated more than $5 billion in losses. In 2024, it operated at a loss of $1.3 billion and, in January of this year, required an injection of $1 billion to keep it afloat.

In the second quarter of 2025, the corporation lost $407 million, which is their worst quarter ever. At this point, the corporation is losing $10 million every day. In fact, with the labour unrest it is currently facing, it's probably more than $10 million per day at this point. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Chair, that Canada Post is effectively insolvent.

When we look at how the world is evolving, this should come as no surprise. The world has changed in recent years. Letter mail volumes have declined from 5.5 billion 20 years ago to 2.2 billion today.

Twenty years ago, Canada Post delivered 5.5 billion letters per year. Today, that number is two billion. Twenty years ago, Canada Post delivered to 14.3 million addresses. Today, that number is 17.6 million.

While Canada Post delivers fewer letters to more addresses, Canadians have been sending and receiving more packages than ever before, but they are increasingly turning toward private competitors.

Canada Post provides an essential service to Canadians, especially rural, remote and indigenous communities. Canadians rightly want this service to be protected.

I think this bears repeating in English.

Given the current financial situation of Canada Post, the status quo and repeated bailouts by the federal government are not the solution.

As the minister responsible, I must ensure that the overall direction of Canada Post aligns with the government's policies and objectives. That implies making responsible but at times difficult decisions. This is why in September I announced that the Government of Canada would accept the recommendations from the Industrial Inquiry Commission, led by William Kaplan.

This means making a series of changes to stabilize the financial situation at Canada Post, including flexibilities in delivery standards.

In Canada, the average household now receives just two letters per week, yet operations are still designed for much higher volumes. Adjusting delivery standards will allow non-urgent mail to travel by ground instead of air and will save more than $20 million a year.

This government has also removed the moratorium on the conversion to community mailboxes. Three quarters of Canadians already receive mail through community, apartment or rural mailboxes, while one quarter still receive door-to-door delivery. The government has authorized Canada Post to introduce community mailboxes to approximately four million more addresses, which will ultimately save the corporation nearly $400 million per year.

As recommended in the Kaplan report, we'll be lifting the rural moratorium that was imposed in 1994. The moratorium has not evolved in 30 years, but Canada has changed. Areas that used to be rural may now be suburban or even urban. It also means that multiple post offices operating near each other, including some that are just a few hundred metres apart, are required to stay open. I have instructed Canada Post to come back within 45 days of the announcement with a plan to protect service in rural, remote and indigenous communities.

Let me be clear: Canada Post has an obligation to serve all Canadians in every community in Canada, and that will not change.

I'm almost done. I'll speak at my pace in question period, so I'll try to be a little faster.

At last, the government is reviewing the process for increases to the stamp rate to modernize and shorten it, in line with the Kaplan recommendations. Taken together, these measures will help stabilize Canada Post's financial situation by generating close to half a billion dollars in savings a year.

There is more to do. As such, I have also asked Canada Post to come back to me within 45 days with a plan for how it will be taking immediate action to address its financial challenges, which means finding efficiencies, reducing costs, reducing overhead, and reviewing and lightening its management structure.

In conclusion, our government must make choices. If we do nothing, Canadians will have to bear losses of $10 million per day. For us, inaction is not an option. These changes are necessary to save Canada Post and put it on the path to sustainability, and that is what we are committed to doing.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

That's all the time we have for today. Thanks, Minister.

I forgot to welcome back Ms. Reza and Mr. Ieraci.

We're going to start our six-minute round with Mr. Patzer.

Go ahead, please, sir.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Thank you very much, Minister, for being here.

Did you have a chance to ever read and go over the 2017 report by this very committee?

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

Thank you very much for the question.

There have been numerous reports on Canada Post and its future. I've looked at many of them. I wouldn't say it was necessarily with the same detail that perhaps members of this committee did, but I did look at all the reports.

I will highlight that in the Kaplan report, on which we based the changes that we announced on September 25, the commissioner had looked at all the reports. In fact, there is one part of the Kaplan report that is titled “Studied to Death”. The future of Canada Post has been studied over and over again by this committee—which I thank for the work—and also by other institutions and organizations over the years. That has informed the decisions we have made to move forward with the transformation of Canada Post.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Recommendation one from the 2017 report is the following:

Canada Post be maintained as a universal public service for all Canadians and conduct its operations on a self-sustaining financial basis while ensuring that profits generated are reinvested within the Corporation.

What went so wrong?

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

I've touched on it in my remarks. What we see with Canada Post we see across the world with different postal services. The volume of letter mail has declined substantially over the years. What was 5.5 billion 20 years ago has gone to 2.2 billion.

The anchor for Canada Post is that it has a monopoly on delivering letter mail. It's the way that Canada Post has attained profitability over many years. However, we've seen the decline in letter mail volume, as well as the rising number of addresses to which it needs to be delivered. I think that accounts for what went wrong, to answer your question.

I would also add, and it's highlighted in the Kaplan report, that the organization has become too big for the volume that it needs to deliver. It's been constrained—

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

I'm sorry, but I'm going to cut you off there because, as you know, we have limited time.

Recommendation 15 is:

Canada Post continue investing in the growth of its parcel/e-commerce services, which provide needed infrastructure for Canadian businesses.

You did highlight that Canadians are largely choosing other providers for parcels. I'll note that one of them is even owned by Canada Post. How on earth did Canada Post not figure it out? One of its own subsidiaries is a profitable, money-making company, yet it can't even take that as a model and implement it as its own to be able to make money.

There have been so many recommendations, so many studies, so many reports and a big emphasis on parcels and identifying that this would be a path forward for them, yet nothing has been done to address that for 10 years.

Why is that?

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

I would suggest that we are moving forward with it. The Kaplan report highlights some of what you've just mentioned. In order for Canada Post to be competitive in the parcel business, it needs to be more agile and more flexible. There are some things we as a government can do, and by that I mean lifting the rural moratorium and lifting the community mailbox moratorium, which we are doing; changing the delivery standard, which we are doing; and changing the way we increase the stamp rate in this country.

There are things over which we don't have power, and those would be the collective agreements. That has to be achieved at the bargaining table. I'm hoping both parties, given the dire financial situation Canada Post is in, will find an agreement by virtue of which Canada Post will be able to be competitive going forward in the parcel business and reach a path towards financial sustainability.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

I mean, why wait until they're in the middle of job action? It's gotten to the point that it's so bad. It's not as though this year and last year were the first years they were losing hundreds of millions of dollars. It was pretty evident for years, even before COVID hit it, that this was the pathway this was going down.

Why was it delayed up until this point, when it's the middle of a job action and, as you even admitted in your opening remarks, as a company it's basically insolvent? Why wait so long to implement a plan for the future of Canada Post?

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

When you look back at the evolution, for instance, when the moratorium was imposed on the implementation of community mailboxes 10 years ago, the financial situation of Canada Post was not the same. In hindsight, it probably should have gone forward; I agree with you on that. However, I would argue, given that, for the first time, the federal government had to invest or inject $1 billion just to keep the lights on at Canada Post and that, in the foreseeable future, the government will.... At the pace it's losing money right now, without any changes, we'd be in repeated bailouts. I think that warranted change and the beginning of the transformation of Canada Post, which is what we're doing. I'm proud that we're taking that responsible decision.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

What political considerations went into you guys not implementing the plan until the eleventh hour?

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

Listen, I've been minister for not even six months now—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

You've been an MP for 10 years, though. You've been in the government for the duration of the time.

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

When you look at the evolution, which is what I've highlighted, in 2024, for this year, we had to inject $1 billion, and Canada Post just had its worst quarter in history this summer. I think it warranted the changes to transform Canada Post, and I think Canadians are generally on board with the changes we've announced.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Gasparro, please go ahead, for six minutes.

Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Thank you for coming, Minister.

I'm a little taken aback by some of the economics here in your presentation, including $5 billion in losses and a burn rate of $10 million per day, which is probably accelerating more quickly than that because of job action, as you pointed out. Do you think it's possible for Canada Post to get on a path of financial viability?

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

I think it is. It's not going to be easy, and it will take some time, but that's why I've tasked the corporation with coming back with a plan to rightsize itself, taking a look at its overhead and finding efficiencies in how it's managed. I've also asked both the union and management to negotiate in light of the financial situation Canada Post is in. I think there is a way. The changes we announced on September 25 in turn will generate savings of close to half a billion dollars a year. That goes a long way in the initial transformation to reach financial viability for Canada Post, but there is definitely more work to do. The first step to stop the bleeding, so to speak, was to go forward with these recommendations from the Industrial Inquiry Commission, which we announced on September 25.

Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Thank you.

Maybe we can drill down a bit. What do you feel are the key priorities for ensuring that Canada Post is financially stable and provides quality service to all Canadians, regardless of their postal code?

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

As part of that, lifting the constraints that it's been operating under is really the first step. For instance, when you look at the rural moratorium, I note that in reports from this committee it was often highlighted that this needed to be updated. It will allow for Canada Post to look at ways to be more efficient. This moratorium was implemented in 1994 and hasn't changed one iota in the last 30 years. As I've highlighted, some of the rural post offices that are included in the moratorium and that may have been rural 30 years ago are now, by any stretch of the imagination, suburban, and in some instances, urban.

I was given an example in B.C. of a plot of land where a post office sits that is covered under the moratorium. Hundreds of housing units could be built, but nothing can be done because the moratorium is in place. Lifting it will allow this flexibility and will allow Canada Post to rightsize itself given the changing nature of the letter-mail business.

Canada Post is not alone in this situation. If you look at the situation in the U.S., France and Denmark, they're stopping letter-mail service altogether, for the most part, except in certain instances on islands. The change that we're announcing is the initial step that is definitely needed to stop the bleeding, because $10 million a day, by any stretch of the imagination, is not reasonable or acceptable to Canadians. Lifting these constraints will allow for the corporation to find ways to rightsize itself.

Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

There's obviously a global shift going on in the parcel business, as the stats you laid out make very clear, and this isn't unique to Canada. Having said that, I've heard from my constituents in Eglinton—Lawrence who are worried about the transition to community mailboxes, especially for seniors and people with mobility issues.

Are there accommodations in place for Canadians who won't be able to access their community mailboxes?

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

That's a very pertinent question.

To that effect, in my own riding—

Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

You might as well say the riding, because it's all part of the—

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

My own beautiful riding of Louis-Hébert, the best riding in the country, in all impartiality—

Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

I may have to call a point of order on that, Mr. Chair.