Government Operations Committee on Dec. 11th, 2025

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

When you go through your rural review.... I'm going to give you just a couple of quick examples. The town of Vanguard is a town of a couple of hundred people at the most, but they rely on you guys every single week to send water samples off to Regina for their safe water supply. They don't have another carrier as an option, because it is a very small town.

It's common throughout Saskatchewan and, quite frankly, a lot of western Canada, to have towns that size.

What measures are you using to make sure that a place like Vanguard doesn't lose its post office? It really is a lifeline for that community.

[Doug Ettinger]

I appreciate that. I've lived most of my life in rural Canada. I understand how important the post offices are, so we're going to be very thoughtful and careful about how we do that.

If there is no other post office close, then it'll be fine. There'll be other criteria, and we'll reveal those when we have further feedback from the government on the plan. We recognize how important they are to those communities, and we'll be thoughtful about how we make those decisions.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Could you give a brief answer on the moratorium? With the moratorium still in place, I believe there have been 515 closures of rural post offices since then. How could that be?

[Doug Ettinger]

Well, there are different reasons. Oftentimes, the postmaster or the postmistress retires and it's hard to recruit somebody to replace them, or the business that they were in shuts down, or people move on to other things. It's not the easiest role to recruit for, unfortunately, particularly in remote areas.

We've said that in terms of postal service, we're going to protect rural, remote and northern. We have 280 air cargo flights going every week to 140 communities in Canada's north. We're committed to protecting that service.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

With the $1-billion bailout that you guys received—and I know there are ongoing conversations about another compensation package, I think, from the government—was there a provision in there that prevented executive bonuses above and beyond...?

Was there a provision in that contract when you guys received the bailout?

[Doug Ettinger]

Not that I'm aware of, no.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Is that something that the government is actively trying to put into a new bailout package?

[Doug Ettinger]

I'm not aware of that, no.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Okay.

We've heard of a lot of people receiving early retirement offers from the government, whether it's staffers on Parliament Hill or bureaucrats. I'm just wondering whether Canada Post has also received these early retirement offers from the federal government.

[Doug Ettinger]

No. We're a Crown corporation; we're separate from that. We sometimes take guidance from what they're doing in terms of key policies, but that has not included us in any way, shape or form.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Okay. Thank you very much.

Really quickly, there's one last point I want to ask you about, and it's this: The Kaplan report was pretty firm in its point, stating, “The notion that the January 2025 $1 billion-plus loan/lifeline will be repaid requires the complete suspension of disbelief.” You've hinted today that you're trying to repay that loan. What are your thoughts on what the Kaplan report had to say?

[Doug Ettinger]

Okay.

With regard to the Kaplan report, we and our union had equal access. It was a public hearing. You might want to listen to that at some point. We put all of our ideas out there, as did the union. I think the report captured that pretty well. I think it's an objective and frank review of our challenges, our obstacles and our opportunities going forward. We're pleased that the government supported that. I think Commissioner Kaplan came up with a very fair review, and we're pleased with that.

As far as the repayable loan goes, that's how we're treating it right now. That's how we're going forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I'll start picking up on some things you've said, Mr. Ettinger. You said that the financial situation of Canada Post is “unacceptable” and that we need to act now. I'm trying to wrap my head around this. There are tens of thousands of people who rely on Canada Post for jobs. There are millions of Canadians who rely on the services that Canada Post provides.

When did your organization first realize that there was an issue here and that your business model was not working?

[Doug Ettinger]

I think if you go back in time—and some of the members around the table were here at that time—you'll see that we've been studied to death over the years, in a good way. If you go back to 2016, a lot of the findings and predictions from that study have unfortunately come true in terms of where we are.

COVID also accelerated the problem in the sense that a lot of upstart emerging private shippers came out of the woodwork and have done a good job. They're gig-based, which we don't support. We support union jobs with good benefits and good pay. However, they have stolen, and they have good programs to take a lot of market share away from us.

The key thing for me is that we're moving forward. Would it have helped if it had been years ago? Of course, but now we have a government that's taking this seriously. It is acting on it. We're ready to act on it now. We know what the key strategies are, even though you've heard them before, like community mailboxes. There's nothing new in this. There's no magic potion that's going to get us to the next place. However, trust me; these are big opportunities for us. We're ready to move on them now, and we have the team ready to roll.

CMBs can provide an even better service, but the savings opportunity there, for example, is $300 million, $400 million or $500 million per year once it's at full state. When you add on the other things in the plan, you can see how there's a path to break even. It's an ambitious path, but by 2030, we want to be there. We think we have the tools now to do that.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

It's interesting that you say that this issue has been studied since 2016—it's been “studied to death” in your words—yet it seems as if none of the recommendations that committees and Parliament have provided to you have been implemented.

By your admission, since 2016, we have known that there was an issue. It's now at least nine years later. You've watched other companies grow. You've watched other companies take up space, be innovative and provide the services that Canadians are looking for. Yes, there are challenges, and I agree with you a hundred per cent that the gig workers are not treated properly in those private companies. That is a place we need to focus and work on. At the same time, they are providing services to millions of Canadians.

As a Crown corporation that is at arm's length from the federal government, you kind of function in your own space. You watched this transition happening for a decade. Why are we here?

[Doug Ettinger]

We've been doing a lot—as much as we can do within our control. We have made some strategic investments. For example, the Albert Jackson processing centre in Scarborough is a state-of-the-art facility that has enabled us to achieve the highest on-time delivery results in our history. That's one example, and I could go on for quite a while, but I'm keeping my answers tight here.

We have our updated ERP system. Pricing and analytics are critical in this industry. You're pricing based on lanes, origin and destination. It's very complex. You need the right systems to do that, so we've updated our systems. Now that we have the tools, and thanks to the government's taking this seriously and getting some of the shackles off us that have been there for a long time, we feel unleashed in a good way in our ability to take these tools and these investments and turn this company in the right direction for the good of Canada.

We know the economy depends upon it. No one else gets to all points in Canada the way we do. We can continue to do that. The things that we've talked about, even though there's more detail in the plan, are going to get us to that point. We're confident we can get there.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I appreciate that.

How do you engage with your stakeholders—with your employees and with the people who receive your services? How do you engage with them so that they know what's going on with Canada Post, they know their jobs are secure, they know they're still going to be receiving mail, and they know who to contact when there are challenges and when there are issues that they want to bring to your attention?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Let me interrupt. We are past our time. Go ahead if you're able to offer a brief answer to that.

[Doug Ettinger]

Maybe I'm not, but I'll do my best. Thank you.

We have a sales team. We have a customer care team. We have a corporate communications team. I get hundreds of emails every day, and we respond to every single one of them, so we understand the issues that Canadians are having. We have our finger on the pulse in that regard.

I believe we now have the tools so we can go forward and get this back to what our original mandate was: to serve all Canadians in a financially sustainable fashion. I believe we can get there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mrs. Block, go ahead, please.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I will be splitting my time with my colleague, Ms. Jansen.

When it comes to loans and supports that come from the government, whether it's to a Crown corporation like yours, to companies or even looking at what can happen within departments that need to come back to the government for more funding, can you tell us if, under the previous loan or any future loans, there are conditions or provisions to ensure that the money being given to Canada Post can't be used to pay executive compensation or management bonuses?

[Doug Ettinger]

Yes, that question came earlier. I'm not aware of that, but I'll ask our CFO if there's any inclusion of those kinds of terms in the loan agreement.

[Rindala El-Hage]

Thank you, Doug, and thank you for the question. It's a really good one.

When the terms of the MOU were negotiated with the Department of Finance as well as with PSPC, the focus was really to ensure that Canada Post has access to that funding to supplement and maintain our operation, to supplement our operating loss. The covenants around that MOU are to ensure that we provide the proper and supporting evidence to the Department of Finance and PSPC for where that money is going. It's really around funding our operating losses and ensuring that we can continue to bring the service to Canadians every day across this great country. There are no covenants in there tied to executive compensation.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Would there be restrictions written into those covenants that would keep Canada Post from being able to provide bonuses?