Evidence of meeting #24 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sandbox.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Senior Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
It will be up to the minister to define what is in the public interest.
It will also be important to take into consideration the fact that there are other conditions, such as the fact that the minister must be of the opinion that the exemption—
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I want to make sure.
Let me give you an example. During question period, we were talking about the high-frequency rail project. We need to ask ourselves what's going to happen. We talk about public consultation. We say the public was consulted—perhaps 20% or 40%—but it was done.
If I understand correctly, the minister can say that it was done. On top of that, all the other little boxes get checked. In the end, there will be an annual report anyway. We'll get scolded later, but the damage will already be done. In any case, what we put in place temporarily will become permanent, as often happens in life.
How can you convince Canadians that what is on the table is a good thing?
Senior Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
What happens with an exemption is that it can only be valid for three years, and it can be extended up to six years, if necessary. Without the exemption, the original regulatory framework would remain in force.
The minister can obtain this exemption if all of the conditions have been met, that is, if it is in the public interest, if it is for the purpose of testing a product or service, and if we have the resources to carry all of this out.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
The three‑year period closely coincides with the date of the next potential election.
That's a lot. How do we reassure people?
Moreover, I don't know how you'll do your job while getting red flags. It's always an afterthought. Can we beg for a structure? In this case, it remains unclear what lies in the public interest. In terms of conflicts of interest, you can agree to them. Of course, after three years, if you have made a few million dollars, you agree to receive a scolding and to pay a minimal fine. I can't believe that there isn't even any oversight.
How will you sleep at night knowing the amount of leeway for decisions that may be valid, but that involve public funds?
February 3rd, 2026 / 4:05 p.m.
Senior Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
For each exemption, the minister making the decision must publish the rationale and contact details. That way, the stakeholders who may be affected, who have questions or who wish to participate in the regulatory sandbox can contact the minister or the department to obtain this information or to ask to participate themselves. The exemption provides a way for the public to get involved in the process.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
In closing, Mr. Chair, I would like my name included so that I systematically receive the reports and so that I'm already at the table to draw attention to the situation. We're talking about billions of dollars of public funds.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Harb Gill Conservative Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for coming.
I share the same concerns that Madam Gaudreau has pointed out. There are some significant challenges with oversight here.
It seems the sandbox idea is another term for “We don't like this regulation and we want to work outside of it.” Would that be a fair statement? They don't like the regulations.
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
No, they're actually designed specifically to only exempt from very specific regulations or pieces of legislation that prevent the test. The test has to be in place in order to inform a future regulatory change.
Conservative
Harb Gill Conservative Windsor West, ON
This is what I don't get. You have a regulation for three to six years whereby you could exempt somebody. Why have the regulation in the first place then? Why not get rid of it?
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
Unfortunately, the reality is that the system is quite complicated at this point.
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
You're right. This is one way to figure out how we can safely simplify. New innovation—
Conservative
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Mr. Chair, I'm going back to your original point not to speak over each other. I know we're really excited about regulatory reform here and—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I appreciate your concern, but the clerk and I will keep an eye on that with the interpreters. I appreciate that.
The time is starting again.
Go ahead.
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
I have totally lost my train of thought; I will be honest. Oh, yes, the problems—
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes, okay. Sorry. I'm back.
The federal system does have 3,000 regulations. This is a way to more efficiently figure out how new innovations, new processes could be used to actually reduce that red tape. It's not to get around it; it is to work to effectively improve the system.
Conservative
Harb Gill Conservative Windsor West, ON
I would disagree with that assessment.
Nevertheless, how do you decide, or who comes to the minister? Do you put out a tender to say, “We are setting up the sandbox and who wants to come play in the sandbox”? How does that happen? Does the minister find his buddies and say, “All right, guys, we have this project coming up, and we have the sandbox for you to come play”?
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
The sandboxes would really be designed based on a problem that's identified—a process we're trying to improve or a new technology they're trying to bring into the market. It would often be regulators themselves who identify ways to improve the system. If there was an industry solution or technology to be tested, they would have to work with the regulators to set it up. It's still the regulators giving the advice and the minister who's making those decisions.
Conservative
Harb Gill Conservative Windsor West, ON
The regulators are employees of the ministry they are responsible to.
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes.
Conservative
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
That's correct. It's their authority.