Government Operations Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2026

[Jenelle Power]

Yes, we can follow up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's wonderful. Thanks very much.

Do you have strict directions about red tape reduction?

One of the things in government that goes back a long time is the one-for-one rule. I'm always curious and I'm wondering how your department will handle it. If it's one for one, before you bring in a new regulation, you're obviously going to have to find an old one to eliminate.

If you're going to eliminate it, why are you waiting for a new one to come in? That is not you specifically, but the bureaucracy. Why does it take us having a new regulation before we go hunting for an old one to eliminate? What is being done to eliminate this raft of stifling regulations on our economy?

[Jenelle Power]

The one-for-one rule is meant to help manage regulatory burden and prevent it from increasing, but it's not the only time that regulators look to remove unnecessary regulations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Maybe you can get back to us on how many regulations have been axed in the last year and in the year before. I have a lot more questions, but perhaps I can provide them in writing to your office and go from there.

Thank you for being with us. We're going to suspend for five minutes to bring in our new witnesses.

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Welcome back, everyone. Thank you for your patience.

We're starting round two with some guests from the Public Service Alliance of Canada.

Welcome to OGGO. I think this is your first time with us. We've had PSAC in the past. I understand you have a five-minute statement. The floor is yours, please.

[Sharon DeSousa, National President, Public Service Alliance of Canada]

Good afternoon. Thank you for inviting me to appear as part of your study on Bill C-15. I'm grateful to be joining you today from the Anishinabe Algonquin territory. I thank them for allowing us to be here today and for being the custodians of this land. As a visitor to this land, I commit myself to put truth, reconciliation and decolonization at the centre of our work. I also want to take a moment to wish everyone a happy Black History Month.

My name is Sharon DeSousa and I'm the president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada. PSAC is Canada's largest federal public sector union, representing over 180,000 federal public service workers who deliver vital services that make Canada more resilient, inclusive and responsive to the needs of its people.

However, the recent budget threatens the ability of the public service to provide these services. The decision to slash the jobs of 30,000 workers who deliver critical programs hurts workers, families and communities across the country. In the last two months, nearly 10,000 PSAC members across the federal public service received workforce adjustment notices warning that they might lose their jobs.

People across Canada are being kept in the dark on how these service cuts will impact them. Cuts to public services aren't what people want or what Canada needs. This is why I'm asking the federal government to stop these reckless cuts and to work with PSAC and other unions to find other cost savings that don't involve slashing our critical services and cutting thousands of jobs.

I'd like to turn my attention to two issues that I believe are of interest to this committee.

The first, commonly known as “25 and out”, will make changes to the Public Service Superannuation Act, allowing public safety workers to retire with dignity after 25 years of service without penalty. For decades, PSAC has been fighting to see this change made so that frontline border services staff, firefighters and other public safety officers are treated the same way as those at other law enforcement agencies across Canada. This is a long-awaited change for workers. It finally recognizes the commitment and sacrifices these workers make every day to keep Canada safe. We're glad to see the forward movement on this issue.

Despite this progress, there are still workers who are being excluded from this program. Fisheries and wildlife officers, park wardens and others have not been deemed eligible for equitable retirement despite having clear public safety responsibilities. Once this legislation has passed, we ask for a review of this program with the intention of having it apply to these excluded groups.

The second issue I would like to address is the proposed early retirement incentive. To manage cuts to the public service, the federal government has announced a new early retirement incentive, or ERI, that would allow eligible employees to retire early without penalty. To date, as many as 68,000 public service workers have received notice of ERI's existence, but no other information.

Under our collective agreement with Treasury Board, the employer has an obligation to make every effort to ensure that any reduction in the workforce is accomplished through attrition.

PSAC understands that ERI can play a role in preventing involuntary layoffs. However, similar incentives already exist as part of the workforce adjustment appendix that is embedded in our collective agreements. The appendix was won through hard-fought negotiations at the bargaining table and it must be respected.

ERI does not provide the same entitlements as what is already established in our collective agreements, such as lump sum payments based on years of service, and it risks implementing a weaker employment transition process than was previously agreed to. This is not acceptable. Any early departure program shouldn't sidestep the employer's contractual obligations and must be integrated into the current negotiated process.

Bill C-15 will enact significant changes for public service workers. Pension reform has been a long time coming, and we congratulate the government on moving this forward. PSAC is ready to work with the federal government to improve the ERI program.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much, Ms. DeSousa.

We'll start with Mr. Patzer.

You have six minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

All right.

Thank you very much, PSAC, for being here. We appreciate your taking the time.

Just off the top, are you expecting any layoffs at agencies, such as CBSA?

[Sharon DeSousa]

We do not know what the plan is for most departments or agencies. We receive notices when the decision is made. There's no consultation. I would say, though, that notices have been received.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Are any of those for frontline employees, such as border agents?

[Sharon DeSousa]

We have people in various positions. What I can tell you is that the frontline officers don't work in silos. They have a team of other workers in administration and also support staff who enable them to do their jobs.

I'll turn to my colleague, Liam, to see if he'd like to add anything.

[Liam McCarthy, Director, Negotiations and Research Branch, Public Service Alliance of Canada]

There have been some cuts to frontline workers certainly, especially in some areas. At IRCC there would be a lot of immigration processing, for example. There have been significant cuts there, where a significant backlog exists. It is possible that we'll see further cuts at places like CBSA and even the Department of National Defence. On net, I think they will grow, but it is possible that we will see cuts at the same time as places are expanding. I've even heard some reports that there are some positions being cut in areas where they're also engaging terms in the same kind of employment facility.

At any rate, there's a number of different things happening at the same time.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

I mean, 1,000 new CBSA personnel or employees is the promise from the government. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is the position of the union that those should be frontline employees, border agents, who should be hired, and not such a broad term used for who they're hiring. It's the frontline employees we actually need more of.

I have heard a lot of concern from constituents about the lessening of border services and also the potential closures of border crossings. Are you hearing any of those concerns? Are you concerned about any of that going forward? You're kind of getting a mixed signal: Oh, we're hiring 1,000, but then we're giving layoff notices.

Are you concerned about the potential for any border points of entry to be closed?

[Sharon DeSousa]

Thank you for that question, because there are ports that have been closed. In terms of some of the smaller ones in the Prairies, I can tell you that this has an impact on communities. For instance, I'll just say that in rural Saskatchewan, where people are trying to get their goods across the border, they have to detour and go farther in order to cross the border.

I can also say that in terms of frontline workers, yes, there is a dire need. There hasn't been staffing up. We're talking about going back to Stephen Harper's time. There is a dire need. There's also competition for those same officers. RCMP is recruiting as well. You were talking about the Department of National Defence. Where do these recruits come from? They're from the same category of people. It takes a lot more for them to go through Rigaud, which is the training program. If there's one piece that they do not pass, guess what? They're kicked out of the program.

There's a recruitment and retention issue. There's a small group that you can actually pull from. Keep in mind that your provincial and municipal police services also recruit from the same group. It can't be done in isolation. As I mentioned, you need the support workers to assist them as well.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

We heard in the previous hour about the sandbox provisions for regulations to be potentially changed or repealed, depending on the outcome of the sandbox time. Are you concerned at all about technologies or applications coming into force that would actually cause the replacement of a person working at a border crossing in favour of a piece of technology? We know that there's the Chinook digital system, but are you concerned about there being any changes coming that would allow somebody to not physically be present but to just roll up, scan an app and then come into Canada? Are you concerned about that?

[Sharon DeSousa]

I think if this government is really talking about security, you cannot depend on any kind of program or AI. You have to have a border service officer. The training they have is invaluable, and I can tell you that AI won't detect things that a human being will.

My concern is that we've already started. When we saw those machines come into the airports and started being used, we already lessened our security.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have 10 seconds.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

That's good, thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Ms. Rochefort, please.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you very much.

Hello, it's nice to meet you.

What has been your experience to date with the special benefit? I guess it was only available to Correctional Service Canada employees who worked in federal correctional facilities. Would that be correct?

[Sharon DeSousa]

That is correct. A similar provision is provided through provincial and municipal police services and firefighters.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That's good to know. Thank you for sharing that.

Is that a benefit that...? To what year does it date? Do you know?

[Sharon DeSousa]

I can't comment on that. I'm looking to my colleague, Liam.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I'm just interested in knowing if that's a benefit that you advocated for. I'm not sure if we'd define it as a benefit or....

[Sharon DeSousa]

The provision “25 and out” is a long-standing provision to recognize the situation frontline workers are put in—the stress, the mental health impact and the exposure to carcinogens.

For instance, I'll speak to our firefighters. If you look at a lot of retired firefighters, by the time they reach the age of 65, or after 35 years of service, you will see that the impact on their mental health as well as the exposure to these toxins have in fact shortened their life expectancy. A lot of those I'm aware of have developed cancer or have passed away within a very short period of time.