Evidence of meeting #24 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sandbox.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
I don't think I can speak to what the Major Projects Office does.
I can acknowledge that, yes, there are different efforts in place to try to reduce red tape. One of them is the regulatory sandbox. We have some other tools we use to look at areas within the government where we could make some improvements. However, I can't speak to the work they're actually undertaking.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
Outside of the trial concept of the sandbox, though, has there been any actual red tape that you've been able to reduce or get rid of in your time?
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
There are few different avenues we pursue. There's regulatory co-operation, where we are exploring a number of ways we can better align our regulations with other jurisdictions that are like-minded, like the EU, for example. Also, the 60-day reports that took place in the summer, which were published in September, have numerous ways to reduce red tape in them. Nearly 500 items were identified—
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
How many of those 500 have actually been cut?
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
I'm sorry. I'm not sure what you mean by “have actually been cut”.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
I mean, figuratively speaking, the red tape. There are 500 items. How many of those have been removed? How many barriers have been eliminated?
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
The reports were just published in September. There will be a public reporting on progress in the spring.
Conservative
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Last week, I had the pleasure of speaking at the North Bay and District Chamber of Commerce. One of the questions I was asked was how the federal government is attacking red tape.
It was actually fitting, because the Canadian Federation of Independent Business have a special week every year which they call Red Tape Awareness Week. It was last week. They say that the goal of the week is:
to raise awareness about the red tape challenges that currently exist with politicians and policy makers to encourage positive changes that will boost productivity, improve affordability, and create a landscape where small businesses can thrive.
I thought it was fitting today that we're going to be discussing what I guess is viewed as a regulatory innovation that tackles precisely the challenges as they were outlined by the chamber and the CFIB.
As a first question, I'd be interested in better understanding how the regulatory sandbox will fit within the overall work of the red tape reduction office, a little bit in line with what Mr. Patzer was asking. Also, if you could explain what the office does, I would welcome that.
I'd also be interested in the work you're doing with the provinces, as we talk about building one Canadian economy and reducing internal and regulatory barriers. If you could touch on that as well, I would welcome your comments.
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
We do talk to the Canadian Federation of Independent Business quite often, so we're very up to speed on all their work.
In terms of the red tape reduction office, I've mentioned some of the big pieces we undertake, like the regulatory co-operation efforts to align with like-minded jurisdictions. That also extends to internal.... We're trying to work with the provinces and territories to align our regulations internally to make things easier. We were involved with the negotiation for the mutual recognition agreement that was signed in the fall.
The other piece of work that maybe hasn't been mentioned yet is that we are currently looking at all the tools that are in place to guide regulators in making regulations. We're looking at whether there are other ways we can make the system itself more efficient and allow for regulations to be made in a more agile and efficient way.
I will say that the regulatory sandboxes are a really good tool for that, in that when an innovative product or process is tested with a regulatory sandbox, that information is meant to be used to inform a future permanent regulatory change. It really is an advantage for the regulators, because they're able to test things out in a small environment, take that information they get from the actual practical application in a Canadian context, and hopefully make a more streamlined, efficient regulation in the future.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Ultimately there will be better decisions and better regulations. Would that be correct?
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
Absolutely. They'd be evidence based in a way they couldn't be otherwise.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
They're evidence based.
Can you walk us through an example of how the implementation of a regular sandbox decision works?
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
I would love to.
I can give you an example of a regulatory sandbox that took place at Transport Canada. At Transport Canada, they have regulations currently in place around the transportation of dangerous goods, say, if you're moving dangerous goods by rail. Right now, it requires a paper document. This document has information about what is being transported and quantities, but also what to do in case of some sort of emergency or accidents and that kind of thing.
As you can imagine, stakeholders find this to be a redundant process, in most cases. Very few businesses are running on paper these days. Therefore, Transport Canada actually worked with stakeholders to put in place a sandbox where they tried using electronic documents and gathered information from stakeholders but also from enforcement agencies and first responders who might have to use it in the case of an accident. They've gathered that information, and they plan to use that to inform changes to the regulations in the future.
February 3rd, 2026 / 3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
That's an excellent example.
With any of the decisions made to date—I guess that's with Health Canada and Transport Canada, where the sandbox has been allowed—have there been any negative outcomes through their work with sandbox regulations?
Executive Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
There are no negative outcomes that we're aware of. They are pretty tightly controlled. The requirement to have regulatory oversight while still abiding by all the requirements for maintaining health and safety still applies.
There is nothing I could report on.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
First off, I have to say that, as an entrepreneur, having the freedom to make decisions and become efficient is obviously welcome. I'm very aware of that.
Since becoming a member of Parliament, I've realized that too often practices that may resemble those of the business world are introduced, but we're dealing with public funds. I've been very concerned for the past six years because the oversight or accountability measures haven't given me any evidence that what is being proposed here will be efficient, let alone an explanation of why this wasn't done earlier.
I have a few questions because my brain wasn't keeping up at the beginning of the interpretation.
How will the government ensure that regulatory sandboxes are actually used for innovation, and not for the circumvention of existing rules?
Senior Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
I can answer that.
In the bill, there are conditions that the minister must comply with if the minister wants to grant an exemption. For example, the exemption must be in the public interest; it must test a product, service or process, among other things; and most importantly, it must be for the purpose of facilitating the design or modification of a regulatory framework. It can't be for any other reason. It really must be to test a new regulatory framework. The minister must also be of the opinion that the benefits outweigh the risks, so the minister must conduct an assessment to determine that it is indeed in the public interest.
The minister must also be satisfied that there are sufficient resources to ensure regulatory oversight of the project. There must be an implementation plan to manage the regulatory sandbox. It's not in the bill, but you will see a policy on regulatory sandboxes in a document that was sent to the clerk. It's a cabinet policy.
There are all kinds of other conditions that regulators will have to meet when they make their implementation plans, such as consultations with stakeholders and indigenous peoples. There are also conditions related to transparency, how the public will be consulted, and how information will be communicated to the public. These are practices that have more to do with how the government operates and are therefore in the policy. What is in the bill is really about permissions and the process for granting exemptions.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I imagine that when preparing to make any changes, there will be a checklist of items confirming that the necessary work has been done, such as whether consultations have been held, and so on.
Now, I would like to know about what happens regarding transparency and disclosure. For parliamentarians and people affected from a legislative standpoint, what is the mechanism? Is there a little box that indicates that, as a parliamentarian, I will be informed of what's going on? Personally, what I'm thinking about are abuses. I'm very concerned.
Senior Director, Red Tape Reduction Office, Treasury Board Secretariat
In that policy, regulators are required to carry out the consultations in advance. We have a mechanism called the forward regulatory plan. That plan is published every year and sets out the regulatory changes expected over the next two years. Regulators are supposed to include regulatory sandboxes in that plan, which is made public.
Every time a minister uses an exemption, the information about that exemption must be published and made available to the public. Every year, the President of the Treasury Board will take all of these exemptions and provide this committee with the list of which exemptions were used and which ministers used them.
