Government Operations Committee on May 5th, 2026

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

That was a great round of questions from Madame Gaudreau. It was very well done.

I'm going to pick up on a couple of themes that she had, Minister.

When it comes to the buy Canada bit, I had a town and mayor reach out to me because they had received a bill payment for a rental for a Canada Post space from a company operating out of Utah.

I'm wondering if it is standard procedure that you would send bill payments from a contractor out of the United States to pay for a Crown corporation's rental space.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I want to make sure I understand.

Did Canada Post submit that invoice?

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

The payment for the rental space by Canada Post to the town was paid for by a third party provider out of Utah. It paid for rental space for the Crown corporation from the town of Leader.

Is that standard practice?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I can't speak to that. I think that's a question for Canada Post. That said, for the moment, the “Buy Canadian” policy applies to procurement of more than $25 million. I have no information regarding the situation you've just raised. Starting this spring, the policy will apply to procurement of more than $5 million. That will definitely increase the scope of the “Buy Canadian” policy. As I said in a previous answer, it came into effect on December 16, so it's for future procurement. Regarding this specific situation, I'd invite you to ask Canada Post. If you'd like, my team can help you get the answer.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

I would suggest that some of the low-hanging fruit such as that might be a simple way to bring more things within our own border.

Particularly, the optics of having a Crown corporation sending payment through a third party provider from Utah is probably not a good look for the government, when you're trying to go down this buy Canada pathway.

I'm going to switch to another point.

Canada Post has basically told this committee and Canadians that they will not participate in the gun buyback confiscation program of your government. The government is going ahead with this program, despite objections from groups like Canada Post. The government has hinted at using Canada Post as a means to collect firearms from people, but Canada Post has said no.

Are you going to respect Canada Post's decision, or are you going to force Canada Post to go ahead with this program?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Regarding the firearms buyback program, decisions were made to use various subcontractors to collect the firearms and ship them. As far as I'm aware, Canada Post is not involved at the moment.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

I guess we'll watch and see what happens with that.

The spring update wants to bring back search and seizure for small mail. It was included in Bill C-2. That bill did not proceed. Bill C-12 came in its place, but the search and seizure of mail was dropped. The spring update brings it back.

Are you going to see that it happens, or are you going to take the cue from Canadians who said no to that measure and asked for it to be removed? What's the plan ?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

When it comes to Canada Post and small packages, meaning letters, it's in response to numerous requests from law enforcement. We now know very small amounts of drugs with serious lethal effects can be shipped that way. It's in response to law enforcement's inability to selectively open packages that could contain such substances. We know, for example, that fentanyl can have a major impact. This is largely in response to what we've heard on the ground. To me, it's all about protecting Canadians.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Okay. There's a process to get a warrant to access that mail, and that process already exists. What is going to be the threshold, then, Minister, for “reasonable suspicion” to open Canadians' mail?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

As I said earlier, right now, we have to wait for a package to reach its destination. We want to have the authority to conduct this type of verification in a safe manner as soon as there are reasonable grounds to believe the package could contain illicit substances.

I would also point out that police forces, particularly, have brought this to our attention many times.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

I don't think that justifies having Canada Post open people's mail. The police can get a warrant, and they could do so. However, Canadians want to know, if you're going to proceed with this, what's the threshold for that letter to be opened prior to its arriving at somebody's house?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

We want to be able to do that, but it's not permitted. Moreover, one of the reasons police forces have asked for this many times is that not having this authority represents a danger.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Martin, go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister.

My questions are around artificial intelligence, which obviously has great transformative potential, but also carries great risk, as we all know.

Regarding artificial intelligence, can you help me to understand what our framework is for thinking about appropriate application of artificial intelligence as we try to modernize the public service and save money for Canadian taxpayers in ways that are responsible?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

First of all, I'm happy to see you here, Dr. Martin. Thank you for your question.

I think this is a fundamental question at a time when governments need to carefully and intelligently integrate AI into their processes.

On the one hand, you have to look at the back office internal processes, if you will, that require the integration of AI, and on the other hand, the fact that Canadians also want to see AI being used in government services delivery.

Moreover, it's essential to do this to see how data is processed, how transactions are conducted, what AI relies on to obtain the information that was sought, for example, if it's used as an assistant for public servants, where the data is and what are the mechanisms used in the background. We must therefore have absolute control over these processes.

I'm currently working on this with the President of the Treasury Board and the Minister of Artificial Intelligence and Digital Innovation. Treasury Board already has a policy that governs and guides the use of AI.

For my part, from a more operational perspective with Shared Services Canada, I want to see how we can break down these departmental silos, where teams have their own ways of operating, their own types of data, and to come up with solutions that will serve the entire government.

I have with me the president of Shared Services, who has given a lot of thought to these issues.

Mr. Jones, would you like to add something to answer Ms. Martin's question?

[Scott Jones, President, Shared Services Canada]

Thank you, Minister.

There are a few things I would add. There is a policy on the responsible and effective use of AI, but there are also a number of ways to make sure that it's free of bias and it's being used effectively, as well as that you can reproduce the decisions that are made and understand why it's making these decisions. All of that together gives a framework for this.

There's also the transparency that comes with the AI registry, where we're using AI, how we're applying it. Also, there's running it on sovereign Canadian infrastructure so that, when it's making inference, it's done in Canadian data centres, on Canadian infrastructure, using Canadian technology. Therefore, we know how it's being done. Then there is the expertise that comes with understanding that; making sure that it's in-house, with public servants knowing how this is running; and working with Canadian companies.

[Danielle Martin, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you.

That was to be my next question, related to data protection, because I think we all would agree that it's critically important, as we learn from and experiment with these technologies, that we ensure our data is kept here and that Canadians can have faith that this will be the case. Thank you for that reassurance.

I think we all know that there will also be an asymmetrical impact on the workers of the Canadian public service as we implement these new technologies. I'm wondering whether you could speak a bit more about.... There are some, as you say, back office and other kinds of functions, and there may be higher-level functions, not too long from now, that may be taken up by AI. Perhaps none of us will have a job, but anyway, when that day comes, are we thinking about how to protect, retrain or offer other opportunities as those asymmetrical impacts make their way through the public service?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Certainly. I see the potential AI can have in public services, how it can enhance the quality work of our public servants. I think many people want to have the right tools to avoid repetitive tasks, which could sometimes be automated. AI could enhance the work of our public servants.

I'd like to talk about a particular initiative. Last week, I met with Minister Glubish from the Ministry of Technology and Innovation. His department created an AI institute for its public servants so they could learn how to use AI tools effectively. It's very popular. I think that's the kind of initiative we need to look at.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Madame Gaudreau, you have two and a half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I just want to confirm something, because I'm not sure I understood correctly. I was talking about Alstom, which operates in two regions of Quebec, and in Ontario. The goal is to nurture talent. Okay. We have the talent, we have the expertise.

Will Alto be forced to comply? We know Siemens and Logistique CAF don't have plants in Canada. With respect to Via Rail, the rail cars ordered by Mr. Garneau were built in California. Via Rail wants to rebuild its fleet outside the Quebec City-Windsor corridor.

Can we be sure the trains will be built by workers in La Pocatière or Thunder Bay? That's my question.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

As far as Alto is concerned, I think the question is a bit premature for a number of reasons. There are a lot of steps to go through, and Alto is holding consultations on the route. It doesn't lie with my department per se.

That said, I can give a tangible example related to the “Buy Canadian” policy we put in place. I was very pleased to be in La Pocatière in January to announce the contract for Toronto's subway cars. The cars will be partly built in La Pocatière. Some of the engineering will be done in Saint‑Bruno‑de‑Montarville, and some in Ontario.

I think this contract is an example of how the “Buy Canadian” policy works, the kind of economic solidarity we need. For you, it may be just in Quebec, but for me, it goes beyond Quebec to the rest of the country. As we deal with illegal and unfair tariffs from the Americans, I think that economic solidarity is fundamental. It was great to see people in La Pocatière working on the Vancouver SkyTrain cars. It was great to see the enthusiasm they had for the Toronto subway cars contract. I think that's a good example of what the “Buy Canadian” policy can do.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I understand about transparency. I imagine we'll have an opportunity to get the detailed breakdown, because that's our job at the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. We'd like to have information on all the expected benefits for the regions, by type of economic activity, both in Quebec and the rest of the country.

Would you agree to provide us with that information?

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I will gladly appear before the committee with my officials, but if you're talking about current or future procurement, I certainly won't be able to talk about it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks. That is our time, Minister. We're trying to get you out on time.

We go now to Mrs. Jansen for five minutes, please.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Yes, thank you.

Just this week, we heard that your department has referred another individual to police, making it the 10th case of suspected procurement fraud referred for criminal investigation. At our meeting in December, I asked whether you could commit to including fraud data in your department result report. I was quite surprised by your written response, which said that fraud detection data isn't included because it fluctuates and doesn't reflect performance. I want to make it clear: Is it correct that detecting and preventing fraud are core parts of the job?