Evidence of meeting #22 for Health in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Jacques  Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Nicol  Advisor-Analyst, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Perrault  Director of Policy (Costing), Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Stanton  Advisor-Analyst, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Burton Bailey Conservative Red Deer, AB

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I go next to Ms. Jaczek for the Liberals for five minutes, please.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the officials for being here.

Now, I'm relatively new to this committee, and I'm not really familiar with the background of requesting the officials to be here today.

What has struck me is that what we're being presented with does not in any way reflect what was in the 2025 budget in terms of cost constraints, particularly as they relate to the supplementary benefits, copayments and so on. This is clearly a study based on data that preceded those changes that our new government has made.

I think you said that, Mr. Jacques. Could you confirm that this simply does not include some of the changes that our government is proposing to make?

4:50 p.m.

Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Jason Jacques

That's correct. That formed part of my opening statement.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Having said that, I presume we're here to dig a bit into the data you used, obviously excluding, as we've said, the new provisions.

MP Strauss, as an example, gave you some information that he apparently has about how billing is not necessarily consistent in anesthesiology, in accordance with the Alberta Medical Association billing code. Were you aware that there could be issues with patients in Alberta being billed a certain amount, or they are insured for that amount, and the federal government is paying in excess of that type of standard billing?

4:50 p.m.

Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Jason Jacques

Again, I believe in my opening statement, I indicated that we assumed the program was being administered in the manner the government intended. In terms of the billing records, we did not request them, nor did we go into them.

In cases of potential malfeasance, that's more of an issue that is under the purview of the Auditor General of Canada.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Would you be able to look into that, as an example? Now you've heard about it, you might want to inform the government of your findings.

4:50 p.m.

Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Jason Jacques

Again, with a motion from the committee, we'd be happy to undertake additional work and an additional analysis.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Okay. I think this would be very helpful, because what we have in front of us was based on old data, and obviously we're here to potentially make some recommendations.

When it comes to supplemental coverage, is there any particular aspect of that coverage—physio or drugs—that stands out as being different from coverage, perhaps, in the general population? I presume you compare them in some way.

4:55 p.m.

Director of Policy (Costing), Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Louis Perrault

For this analysis, we didn't request a very granular breakdown of the supplementary spending, so we haven't done any analysis.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

You don't know. I see.

It really is quite preliminary, isn't it?

There has also been an assertion that coverage would extend for four years. I presume this is an average for all beneficiaries. Is that correct?

In that case, Madam Chair, we would assume that if someone has been charged criminally, as described by a member opposite, their removal from this country might be considerably shorter than four years. I suppose that's not an area of your expertise.

4:55 p.m.

Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Jason Jacques

No, we don't have—

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have one minute.

4:55 p.m.

Interim Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Jason Jacques

That's a question better put to the CBSA officials.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

What were those four years of coverage based on?

4:55 p.m.

Advisor-Analyst, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Caroline Nicol

In the information we got from the IRCC, we asked for the average duration of coverage for the fiscal year 2024-25. They indicated that the average coverage duration is four years.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Is that for all claimants?

4:55 p.m.

Advisor-Analyst, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Caroline Nicol

It's for asylum claimant beneficiaries.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

I see. Okay.

In your analysis, is there any—

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have 30 seconds.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Do you look at inflationary costs or something? You projected through to 2029-30. Did you consider the rate of inflation in any of these costings?

4:55 p.m.

Advisor-Analyst, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer

Caroline Nicol

Yes, absolutely. That's definitely something we looked at when deciding how to project that forward. Our projection includes inflationary pressure and usage pressure, and it also adds to the additional trends we've been seeing in cost increases historically.

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

I'll now go to a third round with the Conservatives and Ms. Helena Konanz for five minutes, please.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Helena Konanz Conservative Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you all for this report, which seems to be, up to this point...I think everyone around this table would agree it is only the tip of the iceberg, but there are some amazing stats, for sure.

The federal government's interim federal health program, which you're projecting will cost $1.5 million annually by 2030 and cost $211 million in 2020, offers taxpayer-funded coverage for a wide range of health care services to asylum seekers and refugee claimants. As soon as someone makes an asylum or refugee claim, they enter the process and become eligible for health services. Is that correct? Is that what you based your date on?