Evidence of meeting #35 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
On clause 14, I'm just going to get a show of hands here, because that's routine, if you don't mind. We need the exercise anyway.
(Clauses 14 and 15 agreed to)
(On clause 16)
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
On clause 16, we have a government amendment before us, amendment G-6, which you will find on page 19.
I will draw to the attention of members that amendment G-6 and amendment NDP-3 have some similarity, appear to be alternative propositions. If the committee wishes, we could debate those and deal with both of them here.
I'll ask the government to perhaps speak to their motion, and I'm looking forward to Mr. Dewar's comment, if he's willing to deal with this one here. I'd like just a yes or a no as to whether you're comfortable with that.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Chair, I have a question, if I may, before I do that, because I might go further than that,
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Sure. We can deal with them separately. So by all means, please.
12:30 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
I just want to know from the panel, before I close the topic, the differences between the two, if there were any major differences in terms of how they're written and how they therefore will be interpreted.
12:30 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Legislation and House Planning, Privy Council Office
The main difference is where a person would be registered. Amendment G-6 specifies that it would occur when someone is being registered at their home, whereas amendment NDP-3 doesn't. So that could happen at a returning office or somewhere else.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Mr. Dewar, I just want to know if you're willing. We can deal with this separately. I don't want to push you or cause you to make a decision you might regret. We can deal with this separately, or we can deal with them both right now. But amendment G-6 was first, so I want to go to that right now.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you.
This amendment takes into account a recommendation made by the Chief Electoral Officer in his report on the 38th general election, which was the basis on which we had prepared our report to the government.
As things stand, under subsection 101(1) of the Canada Elections Act you can be added to the preliminary list of electors in a variety of different ways. One way, of course, is if enumerating agents come to your door, or revising agents come to the door of your home. When they're there, you answer the door, and they ask to see some sort of demonstration that you are who you say you are. And then, having been provided with that information, they put you on the voters list.
It's a fairly frequent occurrence that someone will be at their home without ID, and certainly without full identification for all persons resident in that home. An easy example to imagine would be in a subdivision, such as the ones that are being built in the town I live in, where the people were not there at the time of the last election and a targeted enumeration takes place in a neighbourhood. Mr. and Mrs. Smith are a family in which Mr. Smith goes off to work and Mrs. Smith stays home and takes care of the baby, or the reverse as the case may be. But at any rate, one of them is at home and one of them is not at home. Let's work with Mr. Smith going off to work. Off he goes and he takes with him his driver's licence, which is his photo ID. It's very difficult for Mrs. Smith to register Mr. Smith and get him on the preliminary list of voters in the absence of the ID that he has taken with him in order to go to work.
The Chief Electoral Officer pointed to this problem, and he pointed out that it's inherently implausible that people will be at home waiting for the revising agents to show up in order to register a whole bunch of people who don't actually live at that address in order to commit voter fraud. This is by way of contrast with somebody going down to the office of the returning officer and engaging in registration at that point for themselves or other people without full identification.
If you're looking for a difference between G-6 and NDP-3, that's the fundamental difference. Under NDP-3 you can register yourself or someone else who you say lives at the same residence by means of a written affirmation. Under the NDP motion, you can do it at the returning officer's office. Under our amendment you must do it at home. It seems unlikely people are going to wait passively there in order for someone to show up so they can mark down people who don't actually exist, or who aren't citizens, or who aren't yet old enough to vote.
I think that what the government is proposing will actually eliminate a large number of people being left off the list who otherwise will be left off the list, and it will not in any serious way challenge the overall objective of this piece of legislation, which is to of course reduce and eliminate electoral fraud as much as possible.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Yes, Mr. Chair. I had asked the panel about this because the intent of this amendment from the NDP was to do what Mr. Reid just said. It wasn't the intent to allow people to do this vouching for someone.
That being duly noted, I will be withdrawing the NDP amendment in favour of the government amendment and obviously speak in favour of it, because it was something we wanted to see. Further to that, I think it was clear from Mr. Kingsley that he had asked for this in the last Parliament, I believe—or it might have been the one before—to help with enumeration, which we all agree is not up to where it should be.
One of the roadblocks was this component. Just to help with more accurate lists and obviously more success when they do the targeted enumerations, this really needs to happen. Therefore I will be supporting this amendment and withdrawing NDP-3.
Thank you.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
I am happy to have the question called. For my comfort level, the fact that there is a prescribed registration form and the oath, I think it has the same backstop as we're demanding when they register to vote. I think this is absolutely in order.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Okay, I'll call the question on amendment G-6.
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 16 as amended agreed to)
(Clause 17 agreed to)
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I think I might have expressed myself a little poorly on the last one. It was not my intention to suggest that the NDP amendment was motivated by anything other than the best intentions. I think I might have left that impression.
12:35 p.m.
An. hon. member
[Inaudible--Editor]
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
In that case, I said it poorly, and that was not my intention. I just wanted to make that clear.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
We're on clause 18. Have we dealt with this?
My apologies, colleagues. I was speaking before I read this. Ultimately, in regard to amendment BQ-8, on page 22 in your packages, I believe we have dealt with this issue in amendment BQ-3.
Would you agree with that, Mr. Guimond?
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
Amendment BQ-8 deals with date of birth.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.