Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Sept. 13th, 2007

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I have here a list of 17 cases in which this authority was exercised. On one occasion, section 64 of the act was adapted to “Remove the statutory requirement that the notice of grant of poll set out the addresses of the candidates and their official agents.”

In your opinion, does the act of removing the addresses of the candidates and their official agents from the notice of grant of poll constitute an exceptional circumstance, within the meaning of subsection 17(1)?

[Marc Mayrand]

I believe this provision was adapted because of security concerns for individuals participating in the electoral process. In this instance, adapting the act was completely justifiable.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

As you know, Morocco was in the midst of an election campaign between August 25 and September 7 or 9 of this year. As you also know, 98% of this country's population is Muslim. How did women go about voting in their country's election? Are you aware of the procedures that were followed?

[Marc Mayrand]

I'm not aware of what happened during Morocco's election.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I would advise you to contact that country's chief electoral officer. I can tell you that women did not cover their faces when they voted, despite the fact that 98%—or 99%, depending on which database you consult—of Morocco's population is Muslim.

In this particular instance, the Muslim community has not made any requests of you. You are doing more than what is being asked of you. Did you receive any representations from Quebec's or Canada's Muslim community?

[Marc Mayrand]

Let me clarify two things. Based on my understanding of Morocco's electoral system, there are two distinct voting procedures for men and women, thereby ensuring that religious beliefs are respected. I think that if I were to allow for something similar, I would quickly be accused of making new reasonable accommodations. Here again, in my view, it should be left to elected representatives, and not to the Chief Electoral Officer, to settle this matter.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

There is agreement on this issue in Quebec. To your knowledge, was Marcel Blanchet, Quebec's Chief Electoral Officer, accused of making new reasonable accommodations?

[Marc Mayrand]

Again, we are talking about a different system. However, I would point out that the provincial legislation allows veiled individuals to vote. As I see it, it is incumbent on legislators to amend the act.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I would like to focus on the possibility of the situation getting out of hand, which, by the way, the Bloc hopes does not happen.

According to some news reports over the weekend, on Saturday, in the riding of Outremont, five women had dressed in burqas and had gone to vote without uncovering their face. Subsequently, they spoke to the press and encouraged all women and individuals to do likewise.

Do you understand, sir, that by making this decision, you run the risk of having the situation get out of hand, and that people's democratic right to vote might be violated?

[Marc Mayrand]

Again, I have to say that identification rules have been followed during the voting process which began a week ago and that in my opinion, the public has made its position clearly known as to what the electoral process should be.

Political officials have indicated that they intend to review the rules of the electoral system. In light of this fact, there is no need to continue to stage protests which occasionally could violate people's dignity and be disrespectful toward others.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I have a question for you, one to which I already know the answer. My legal background always leads me to ask witnesses a question to which I already know the answer, rather than one based on hearsay.

Is it in fact true that the Bloc Québécois representative who participated in the party advisory committee conference call on July 26 2007 said that the question of individuals having to uncover their face to vote was not in dispute in Quebec and had not been since the March 2007 elections, further to a decision made by Mr. Marcel Blanchet, Quebec's Chief Electoral Officer? Did the Bloc Québécois make mention of that fact?

[Marc Mayrand]

We took some very detailed notes during this conference call. I repeat that no objections, protests or discussions ensued over the issue of veiled voters.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

We are out of time on that round. I wanted to let it go so Monsieur Guimond could get his answer.

Mr. Dewar is the last questioner on the list and then we are finished. We are already running a little over time, and out of respect for our witnesses this will be the last round.

Mr. Dewar, please.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I will be quick, Chair. Thank you.

I have a point of clarification and then a question. In the Moroccan elections—and I have the observations report and recommendations—just to be clear, they have a separate voting list for women but they don't have a separate voting situation for women. All citizens vote in the same polling station. We can talk later about that, but just to be clear, they do unveil and show their faces, and they have a way of doing that and it works. There are some other concerns about Morocco, but that's for another day.

I want to ask a question on the issue of consultation. I think that's really what is missing here. We've heard from members of the community that they were never asked about this issue. The government recently released a public consultation on democratic institutions and practices. They spent about a million dollars on it and it was just released yesterday. There are other documents they claim to be consulting Canadians on. Are you aware of any consultation with the Muslim community on voting and the veil? Do you have any paper on that? Do you know of any instance when either the government or the committee or your office actually consulted the Muslim community, or anyone, before this became an issue?

[Marc Mayrand]

Prior to the enactment of Bill C-31, I'm not aware of any public consultation. There may have been, but I'm not aware of it.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm not either, and that's why I brought it up, because I think it's important for people to know that up until recently there was no consultation, there was no concern. I just wanted that on the record.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, that ends the second round, and we are in fact out of time.

First of all, let me thank you and your team, Monsieur Mayrand, for coming to the committee on short notice to answer our questions—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

On a point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

A point of order?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Yes. I believe there's some confusion as to the will of this committee among the witness panel. I have here a motion for unanimous consent to clarify the committee's will.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Excuse me. Order, folks. Thank you, I'm the chair.

I'm sorry, Mr. Poilievre, we are not allowed to introduce a motion on a point of order.

What we can do now, though, is continue with the thank you by the committee here today.

We're going to take a two-minute suspension of the meeting so that we can move one panel of witnesses out and get the new witnesses in.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, we'll begin the second part of our meeting. We are running 15 minutes behind, so I will just give advance warning that I will end this meeting at 12:15 so that we do in fact have a reasonable time to get through our work.

We have a number of witnesses before us today, and I certainly appreciate everyone coming on incredibly short notice. You have the compliments of the entire committee for being here.

I will restrict opening comments to one minute. You can include your name, the organization you represent, and anything else you want to say, up to one minute. You will see my hand go up, and that will be the one minute, and that will be your time. I don't want to be rude, but we have a lot to cover. So let's try to do that. Then the members will have an opportunity to ask you questions, through which you may finish anything you didn't get a chance to say.

Having said that, let's begin our meeting. If you could please start, we'll just go around and then we'll begin our questions.

[Alia Hogben, Executive Director, Canadian Council of Muslim Women]

My name is Alia Hogben. I'm the executive director of the Canadian Council of Muslim Women.

It is most unfortunate that the apparent confusion of the Chief Electoral Officer, Parliament, and this committee—including that concerning the recent 2007 bill regarding photo ID and other forms of identification—has been framed as a Muslim issue.

From what I understand, Monsieur Mayrand was being well-intentioned and thoughtful about veiled Muslim women. Sadly, this focus has exacerbated the anti-Muslim sentiment and has made this into another bad example of how Muslims are seeking accommodation, when in fact the confusion is the result of unclear directions and the act and its options.

This issue should be dealt with as a Canadian issue of encouraging voting, and as security versus human rights issues. The rationale for changes becomes understandable if these concerns are addressed for all Canadians.

Do not, please, make this an issue for Muslims only, as Muslim women are willing to show their faces. They accept the importance of voting.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Perfect. Well done. Thank you.