Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 6th, 2007

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay. We delete clause 4 then.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Okay. I'm going to go back to the basic question for our records, colleagues.

(Clause 4 negatived)

(On clause 5)

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, we'll turn to clause 5 now. A number of amendments are proposed. Some are consequential, and some will be affected by the vote on clause 4. The first one we received was NDP-1, and I believe in your packages you'll find that on page 4.

I'll ask Mr. Angus if he would kindly introduce this amendment to the floor.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think this amendment is very similar to the other amendments that are coming forward, which are basically housekeeping following out of the first Bloc amendment, and we would be removing the “Sunday the day before polling day”. That is the main thrust of it, so that we're keeping all the other polling days, but we're striking reference to that particular Sunday.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, I will have to be consistent, because the rules call for that.

Given that this is removing an entire day before the actual election day, complete with all the polls being opened, I'm ruling—and I know exactly where this is going—this amendment out of order. As a result, I might want to tell you that since they were drafted on the same page together--(a) and (b), as you can see--then I am determining that the second part of this amendment, which is different from the other motions put forward by the Liberals and the Bloc, this line (b), is also deemed to fall with my decision on the amendment itself, which is beyond the scope and principle of the bill as sent to us by second reading.

I have a challenge.

Please, Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I wish I could understand your way of looking at this. And bear with me, I'm asking you to explain it to me.

You permitted the removal of clause 4 totally because the day to which this clause relates will not exist according to the changes we'd made previously. Right? My understanding is that this change, lines 11 and 12 being replaced by section (a) of NDP-1, is based on the same premise that the day will not exist and therefore we can't relate to it. Why would you let the first one go and not the second one?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I did not let anything go. The committee voted clause 4 out. It wasn't my decision; it was the committee's decision. My rulings on all these amendments are based on the amendments as they were received yesterday, and I'll continue to do that.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Had you ruled out clause 4?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

No.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

I am ruling it out of order, beyond the scope of the bill as sent to us after second reading. And just out of courtesy to my opponents, I'm looking for someone to challenge me.

Mr. Angus, a challenge?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I challenge the chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Mr. Angus has challenged the chair.

We will move to a vote. I will ask the clerk to read the exact wording so that everybody knows what they are voting on.

[The Clerk]

Shall the ruling of the chair that the amendment is out of order be sustained?

(Ruling of the chair overturned: nays 7; yeas 3)

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

We'll begin debate on amendment NDP-1 to clause 5; it's page 4 of your package. Is there any debate on this one?

Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Are you including parts (a) and (b)of the amendment, or strictly part (a)?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

It would have to be as it is in front of you, so it includes parts (a) and (b).

Mr. Paquette.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Chair, as you may have noticed, the amendment proposed by the NDP in (a) is exactly the same as what is proposed by the Liberals and the Bloc Québécois.

In part (b) of the amendment, on the other hand, there are differences. The Bloc Québécois and the Liberals are proposing to strike out all of the paragraph starting with "That Bill C-16 ...", proposed subparagraphs 167.2(a)(i), (ii), (iii) and (iv).

I wondered whether my NDP colleague would agree to include those elements, which are logically consistent with his amendment. He wants to simply strike out subparagraph (ii), while in our opinion, to be logical, all of the three subparagraphs, (ii), (iii) and (iv), would have to be struck out.

So I wondered whether he would agree to include that addition in his amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Merci beaucoup.

Mr. Paquette and Mr. Angus, it's been suggested by our analyst that what we might want to propose is a subamendment to delete part (b) from this amendment and then add it back in when we come to the other ones.

That is a suggestion. Everybody seems happy with that.

We are now on to a subamendment, which is to delete part (b). Who is making that motion? Mr. Paquette would make that motion.

Mr. Lukiwski.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

On a point of clarification, Mr. Preston, I think, pointed out—

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I'm not sure we're allowed to take amendments today, are we?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I don't want to delay it, but technically are we supposed to give 24 hours' notice or not?

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

We could call them all subamendments and then we could bring them to the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Order, please.

We're debating this amendment, and I believe in the amendment we are wanting to delete this particular part. We're not deleting the entire amendment, which isn't allowed, but part of this amendment can be changed.

We need a mover for that, please.

Mr. Paquette has moved that we remove part (b) of this particular amendment.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Chair, I'm not sure I got a ruling from you on this.