Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 6th, 2007

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I would urge Monsieur Paquette and others to please observe the in camera provisions that are set.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you, Mr. Lukiwski.

There is no debate on a point of order.

At the risk of revealing more in camera discussions, we'll move to the business of the day, please.

Colleagues, the orders of the day are that we begin clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-16, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (expanded voting opportunities) and to make a consequential amendment to the Referendum Act. If colleagues could put their papers up for Bill C-16, you will have in front of you the clause-by-clause notes that are prepared.

Colleagues, there are no suggested amendments to clause 1.

(Clause 1 agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Clause 2 has no amendments, colleagues, so I will call the question. The Bloc amendment BQ-1, which is what I think we're referring to, is actually a new clause. We will deal with that next; clause 2 in the act has no amendments to it.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

We are opposed to it. We are calling for a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Do you want a recorded division? Okay.

(Clause 2 negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

There is a new clause proposed.

Colleagues, in your pamphlets amendment BQ-1, which I believe should be on page 1 of your pamphlet, is a new clause 2.1. I'll allow the mover of that amendment to put it forward, and then we'll have a ruling.

Go ahead, Madame Picard.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

We want to add this new section to require that the returning officer open revisal offices in all post-secondary institutions in his or her electoral district. The purpose of the bill is to increase the number of electors and interest them in exercising their right to vote. It is often pointed out that young people unfortunately do not exercise that right.

By opening revisal offices in post-secondary institutions, the returning officer would be facilitating the exercise of democratic responsibility.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

In the interest of time, I will tell colleagues that I did spend a lot of time on these amendments last night. I'm ruling this amendment out of order. It's beyond the scope of this bill.

We'll move on.

(On clause 3)

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, we have two proposed amendments to clause 3. Amendment BQ-2 was handed in and received first; however, I think you will find that amendment LIB-1 is identical.

We will first go to the Bloc again and ask them if they would be kind enough to introduce this amendment.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Chair, this is quite simply a matter of making it consistent with clause 2, which has been eliminated. If we delete the reference to the Sunday preceding the vote, we would then have to remove the reference to using the final day of advance polling. That would mean that the lists could be obtained faster.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

With the permission of the committee, I would like to ask the PCO officials to join us at the table. I see them sitting in the corner, and that's quite acceptable, but if any members have questions, it might be better if they were sitting at the table, so I invite the PCO officials to take a place at the table.

I apologize, colleagues. I should have invited the witnesses who have joined us to help us through this debate to the table earlier. Can we take a minute and have the experts from the PCO and Elections Canada introduce themselves to committee members?

Please state your name and title; we'll begin on my far left.

[Michèle René de Cotret, Director, Legislative Policy & Analysis, Elections Canada]

My name is Michèle René de Cotret. I am a lawyer and the Director of the Legislative Policy and Analysis Section at Elections Canada.

[Dan McDougall, Director of Operations, Legislation and House Planning, Privy Council Office]

I'm Dan McDougall, director of operations for the Privy Council Office, legislation and House planning.

[Marc Chénier, Counsel, Legislation and House Planning, Privy Council Office]

My name is Marc Chénier. I am counsel with the Legislation and House Planning section of the Privy Counsel Office.

[David Anderson, Senior Policy Advisor, Legislation and House Planning, Privy Council Office]

I'm David Anderson, senior policy adviser at the Privy Council Office.

[Michel Roussel, Senior Director, Operations, Elections Canada]

My name is Michel Roussel. I am the Senior Director of the Operations section at Elections Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

Colleagues, again, we do have some discussions going on around the room, and I don't mind that at all, but sometimes it does get hard to hear. That's my first point.

My second point is that we have only two microphones at the end of the table. When you wish to speak, if you could try to point whichever one is closest toward you, it would help our translators pick up anything that's said.

Colleagues, we have had the introduction of motions. Thank you, Mr. Paquette, for that. I have studied this amendment as well. As I see it, this removes the Sunday polling day.

I don't need to discuss my ruling, but that was the intent on principle at second reading, and by removing a day, this goes beyond the second reading stage of this bill, and therefore it is ruled out of order.

Colleagues, we'll move on to—

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Chair, I appeal your decision.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

We want an appeal of my decision? Then we'll have a vote.

You can't appeal my decision; you can vote on it. Then if I'm overruled, we'll go back to discussing it. I would sense that this is where the debate will come in.

There's been a request to overturn my ruling. I'll have the clerk read the actual clause, and then we'll have a vote.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. James M. Latimer]

Shall the chair's ruling that the amendment be ruled out of order be sustained?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Do we agree with the decision being reversed? If we vote to sustain, we keep the chair's decision.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

If you vote down the chair's decision, it means that the amendment is still in order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

We're voting on whether or not you agree with my decision that the amendment is out of order. That was my decision. We're trying to keep it simple.

All those who believe--without all these legal terms--that my decision was correct, that this amendment is beyond the scope of the bill and a result is out of order, raise your hands.

Before we get into this, I always get calls for a recorded vote. Is there any request for that right now, or do we just raise our hands? Mr. Angus, do you want a recorded vote?

Thank you. We'll have a recorded vote.

(Ruling of the chair overturned: nays 7; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

The ruling of the chair is overturned. We'll begin debate on the amendment.

Perhaps I could ask Mr. Paquette to read the amendment again to members so that we can begin our debate on the amendment.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In clause 3, "the last day of advance polling" would have to be struck out, because that vote is the Sunday preceding the general election. So we could then have the list of electors after the seventh day before polling day but no later than the third day before polling day.

There is therefore no longer a reference to advance polling on the Sunday, which is in fact a polling day.