Evidence of meeting #40 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ullyatt.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Angela Crandall

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

I call the meeting to order.

This is meeting 40 of Procedure and House Affairs. We're here today pursuant to the order in support of reference to the question of privilege relating to the premature disclosure on November 18, 2010, of the confidential draft report on the pre-budget consultations of the Standing Committee on Finance by an employee of the member for Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar.

We have Mrs. Block with us today. We welcome you to the committee. It's great to have you back. You used to sit on this committee with us, so you know most of us, I guess.

Mrs. Block, please start with an opening statement. Then we'll go to a seven-minute round of questions and a five-minute one.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank you for inviting me here this morning. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the procedure and House affairs committee. I believe we have meaningful work to do. I realize that I did not have to appear before this committee today, but I believe this is an important matter to all of us as parliamentarians. It is my hope that my testimony will be of assistance to the committee.

I would now like to take a few minutes to outline the events as they unfolded.

On November 18 my legislative assistant, Emrys Graefe, brought to my attention that Mr. Ullyatt had forwarded the draft pre-budget report by e-mail to Lynne Hamilton. At that moment I knew that a breach of confidentiality had occurred and Mr. Ullyatt had to be fired. I was made aware of the breach as I was leaving for the airport and about to get into a taxi. I arrived just in time to board my flight.

Since my flight to Saskatoon was connecting through Toronto, I contacted the chief government whip from the Pearson airport to inform him of the breach of confidentiality and let him know that the employment of the individual who was responsible for the breach would be terminated. Further, I asked for the chief government whip's assistance in securing my office so that a proper investigation could take place. The chief government whip agreed to help me in that regard.

Before boarding my flight, I also called Emrys to ask that he be in the office early the next day to ensure that security was informed that Mr. Ullyatt was not to enter the building. He was further instructed that if Mr. Ullyatt did make it past security, he was to call security immediately and have him removed.

I arrived in Saskatoon around midnight. Early the next morning I called Mr. Ullyatt before he would have left for work to inform him that I had been made aware that he had forwarded the draft pre-budget report to Lynne Hamilton. He admitted he had done so. I then informed him that his employment with me was terminated immediately.

After my discussion with Mr. Ullyatt, I contacted the chair of the finance committee, who encouraged me to contact all other members of the committee. While I was doing that, Emrys worked with the chief government whip's office to ensure that Mr. Ullyatt would have no remote access to any office files, computers, or e-mail accounts. Passwords were changed for all e-mail accounts for my office and IT services cut off Mr. Ullyatt's government BlackBerry.

I instructed Emrys to contact the office of every other member of the finance committee and provide my personal cellphone number to them. It was a Friday and many of us were in our ridings.

He asked each office to have their member of Parliament call me about an urgent matter concerning the finance committee. Emrys confirmed with me that he spoke to the staff of all other committee members--Conservative, Liberal, Bloc Québécois, and NDP--except Mr. Pacetti's office, where he left a voice message.

Through the course of the day I spoke with Liberals members, Mr. Brison and Mr. Szabo. I spoke with the Bloc members of the committee, Mr. Paillé and Mr. Carrier. I also spoke with all of my fellow Conservative members of the committee. The only two members I was unable to speak with that Friday were Mr. Pacetti and Mr. Mulcair.

To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Pacetti did not return my call, but the chair informed me that the two of them had spoken. Regrettably, I missed Mr. Mulcair's call. He did leave me a voice mail with a number that I believed was for his constituency office. Since I did not retrieve Mr. Mulcair's voice mail message until late Friday evening due to events in my riding, I did not call him back until Monday, when I left a voice mail in his Ottawa office.

After the passwords for the e-mail accounts had been changed, Emrys did a search of the sent folder in the e-mail account Mr. Ullyatt had used. That was when it was discovered that the report had been forwarded to two other individuals. I informed the chair of the finance committee of this new information.

On Monday morning, I again called the chair of the committee and advised him of which members of the committee I had spoken with. During my conversation with the chair, I was encouraged to contact the clerk of the committee to ask him to call the lobbyists in question and advise them not to forward the report and to destroy any copies of it they might have, and I did so.

After Monday's finance committee meeting, I returned to the House to rise on a point of order. It was then that I apologized for the actions of my former staff member. Later, I was informed that a fourth lobbyist had come forward, and through a subsequent request to IT service, I learned that Mr. Ullyatt had sent the report to a fifth lobbyist.

I want to be clear: nobody could be more disappointed than I that this has occurred. I have always had and will continue to have the utmost respect for the confidential nature of the business conducted in our committees, and I think my actions in dealing with this have demonstrated as much.

There is no doubt that this was a breach of privilege. This has impeded my work, the work of the finance committee, and indeed the work of the House as a whole. I only hope that some good can come of this terrible situation.

It is my hope that we develop some process or a set of protocols that can help prevent further breaches. It is also my hope that through my testimony today I can help guide any other member of Parliament who may find themselves in a similar situation.

In summary, Mr. Chair, I found that there was a breach of confidentiality. I fired the employee immediately. I contacted all members of the committee--Conservative, Liberal, Bloc Québécois, and NDP. I asked the clerk to notify the recipients of the draft report. And finally, I apologized before the House for the actions of my former staff member.

Once again, I would like to thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to present these facts to the committee, and I do look forward to answering any questions the members may have, for a full hour.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you, Mrs. Block.

We will go to a seven-minute round of questions.

Mr. Proulx, I believe you're first today.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mrs. Block. Welcome to the committee.

Mrs. Block, exactly what work did Mr. Ullyatt do in your office?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Ullyatt was my executive assistant. He was responsible for the day-to-day management of the office in Ottawa.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Was he a contractor or a full-time employee?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

He was a full-time employee in my office.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

He testified that you were aware of all of his activities at the office. What do you think he meant by that?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

I had laid out all expectations for my staff. They had been instructed that they were to follow the rules of the House of Commons.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

But you are saying to us that you were aware of everything he was doing or everything that was he attempting to do, in your office and out of your office, as your employee?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

I had a position description for him, which I had gone over with him. I had laid out my expectations in terms of hours for the office to be open--

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Yes, well, excuse me. You know how this works--

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

--and I expected all rules of the House of Commons to be followed.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

You know how this works here. I only have seven minutes. I can appreciate where you've given him the book of the rules, and I can appreciate where you've said to do this and to do that, but what I'm saying to you is, were you doing follow-ups? Were you checking on him? Were you looking at the work he was doing on your behalf?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

The work in my office was getting done. He was performing the work to my satisfaction, and I--

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Okay. Let me put it to you in a different way. Do you feel as though, by and large, you knew about all of his activities in your office?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

I was satisfied with the work he was doing.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

No, that's not my question.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

The work that I expected to be done was getting done.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

That's not my question. I'd like you to answer my question. Did you know about all of his activities in your office?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Again, Mr. Chair, I would say that I had provided the employee with a full and comprehensive job description. I understood that he was going to be following those explicit instructions.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Mr. Chair, I'll continue the questioning, but I would appreciate it if you would direct the witness to give us answers to the questions that we ask her.

Mr. Tim Egan was here two days ago, and we confirmed that he was asked a question by you at a finance committee meeting that had been provided by Mr. Egan to Mr. Ullyatt. Were you aware that Mr. Ullyatt received the question from Mr. Egan?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Chair, it is common practice for me to develop questions with my staff for witnesses. Mr. Ullyatt handed me a question during the course of the pre-budget consultation. I had no indication from him at that time that it was anything other than what he would have prepared for me.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Okay, so you didn't know what was going on.

Has Mr. Ullyatt always been privy to other reports or confidential information, whether it be from the finance committee or other of your activities?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

He would have been aware of other draft reports that would have been sent to him by any other committees.